3 ms·

> why you have stuck with Vim over NeoVim? Wow that's a very personal question! I'll try to answer the best I can! I like retrocomputing and hacking, especial

by csdvrx 3y ago

> why you have stuck with Vim over NeoVim? Wow that's a very personal question! I'll try to answer the best I can! I like retrocomputing and hacking, especially for Christmas: I want to write things I can share, that'll mix old stuff and new stuff, and that will make people smile - call it the spirit of Christmas or whatever. My 2022 Christmas project was to write a web server in perl, exposing the whole C:\ drive, just for fun. perl, vim, bash (etc) are old, so they are stable and available everywhere: other things equal, I think doing the same with neovim might have had less impact. Also I think it's better and more satisfying to make existing tools work the way you want (ex: I want images in my terminal without moving to another terminal!), instead of moving to other tools when your existing tools can't do something you want. I believe it's the true spirit of hacking. > i have done the same. I made a couple of attempts to switch to nvim the last of which was abandon just over a month ago. TBH I never really tried neovim, maybe because I like the start screen of vim? The idea of doing something for orphans may be cheezy, but I really like the message! Also why did you attempt to switch to neovim? I don't feel any limitation in vim. I'd be curious to know why you tried. I felt them in tmux (lack of sixel support) or bash (incomplete history file), but instead of doing the sensible thing such as using zsh within kitty like everyone else, I spent some time to have tmux intercept and transcode sixel sequences into "ascii art" (https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/ https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/) have bash save commands start and stop time in a sqlite database (https://github.com/csdvrx/bash-timestamping-sqlite https://github.com/csdvrx/bash-timestamping-sqlite) > I have a very hard time articulating what I like more about Vim other than simply it just suits me better (which isn't an interesting answer). I see what you mean. I didn't like zsh when I tried it last time I tried to move to Linux on the desktop. I liked hyprland - it sealed the whole linux-on-the-desktop deal. It "suits me better", but it's new so I think (or I hope?) it's not just by weird interest in retrocomputing that makes me prefer bash+vim to zsh+neovim :)

sodapopcan 3y ago
> TBH I never really tried neovim, maybe because I like the start screen of vim? The idea of doing something for orphans may be cheezy, but I really like the message! Ha, I like that! Personally I hide the home screen but I can get behind that and have donated to Vim before. > Also why did you attempt to switch to neovim? I don't feel any limitation in vim. I'd be curious to know why you tried. The first time years ago, was the try out the async stuff, then Vim got it so I switched back. The second time was very recently. I'm primarily a web developer and write a lot of Elixir. The Elixir community is rallied around NeoVim so the experience is quite a bit better. The maintainer of elixir.vim doesn't even write Elixir anymore (though he is very attentive to PRs and issues). I've contributed a bit to it, but ultimately I don't spend a lot of time hacking on Vim anymore (though I do have a todo item to update my vim plugins to make use of viml 9). At the same token, there is a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on in that I know VimL very well. I don't like the idea of having my config in two different languages nor do I like the idea of having to port my whole vimc config (which I know quite intimately) over to Lua. And ya, as you said, I feel no limitation in Vim other than the previously mentioned lack-of-Elixir support. Oh ya, I was also convinced to try it out thanks to this talk [0]. Though, even as a quiet person myself, I found his speaking style very hard to take (but I powered through). I'm actually aware of your Sixel project but never ended up trying it out. I've actually been following you on github for quite some time but---being primarily a web dev---often when I have to compile C on my mac I think "meh, I'll look into this later" and, of course, rarely come back to it. Not a very good reason, I know. And ya, I kind of just switched to zsh years ago because it was "the thing to do". I do write enough shell scripts and never use any zsh-specific features, so I've been thinking of moving back to bash just to try it out again. Thanks so much for your answer! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-vmPC_-Ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-vmPC_-Ho
- csdvrx 3y ago
  > Thanks so much for your answer! You're welcome! I'll try to release more APEs for the sixel related projects because I'd like to make things like https://github.com/bytesnake/vim-graphical-preview/ https://github.com/bytesnake/vim-graphical-preview/ more accessible. A vim that'd use cosmopolitan binaries for the plugins would provide a solution without making everyone compile C code! > The maintainer of elixir.vim doesn't even write Elixir anymore (though he is very attentive to PRs and issues). I've contributed a bit to it, but ultimately I don't spend a lot of time hacking on Vim anymore If the community has moved to neovim and the maintainer of the vim package isn't writing in this language anymore, it may be hard to get a good "out of the box" experience with prepackaged solutions But if the result you get still satisfies you, maybe it's not worth chasing what everyone else is doing with neovim? A minimal hacking around your working vim configuration could get you further, or at least fix your pain points enough to make everything else less important. Also, you can't be certain that what the neovim elixir community find important, their pain points, will be identical to yours: hacking your own solution guarantees you'll be satisfied by it (because if you aren't, you can hack it some more :)
naniwaduni 3y ago
zsh isn't much less retro than bash is! They're, like, a year and a half apart; bash just has a special case of the GNU. (It's wild to me that despite *gestures wildly*, zsh's release tarball is under half the size of bash's, though...)

by csdvrx 3y ago

sodapopcan 3y ago

> TBH I never really tried neovim, maybe because I like the start screen of vim? The idea of doing something for orphans may be cheezy, but I really like the message! Ha, I like that! Personally I hide the home screen but I can get behind that and have donated to Vim before. > Also why did you attempt to switch to neovim? I don't feel any limitation in vim. I'd be curious to know why you tried. The first time years ago, was the try out the async stuff, then Vim got it so I switched back. The second time was very recently. I'm primarily a web developer and write a lot of Elixir. The Elixir community is rallied around NeoVim so the experience is quite a bit better. The maintainer of elixir.vim doesn't even write Elixir anymore (though he is very attentive to PRs and issues). I've contributed a bit to it, but ultimately I don't spend a lot of time hacking on Vim anymore (though I do have a todo item to update my vim plugins to make use of viml 9). At the same token, there is a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on in that I know VimL very well. I don't like the idea of having my config in two different languages nor do I like the idea of having to port my whole vimc config (which I know quite intimately) over to Lua. And ya, as you said, I feel no limitation in Vim other than the previously mentioned lack-of-Elixir support. Oh ya, I was also convinced to try it out thanks to this talk [0]. Though, even as a quiet person myself, I found his speaking style very hard to take (but I powered through). I'm actually aware of your Sixel project but never ended up trying it out. I've actually been following you on github for quite some time but---being primarily a web dev---often when I have to compile C on my mac I think "meh, I'll look into this later" and, of course, rarely come back to it. Not a very good reason, I know. And ya, I kind of just switched to zsh years ago because it was "the thing to do". I do write enough shell scripts and never use any zsh-specific features, so I've been thinking of moving back to bash just to try it out again. Thanks so much for your answer! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-vmPC_-Ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-vmPC_-Ho

csdvrx 3y ago
> Thanks so much for your answer! You're welcome! I'll try to release more APEs for the sixel related projects because I'd like to make things like https://github.com/bytesnake/vim-graphical-preview/ https://github.com/bytesnake/vim-graphical-preview/ more accessible. A vim that'd use cosmopolitan binaries for the plugins would provide a solution without making everyone compile C code! > The maintainer of elixir.vim doesn't even write Elixir anymore (though he is very attentive to PRs and issues). I've contributed a bit to it, but ultimately I don't spend a lot of time hacking on Vim anymore If the community has moved to neovim and the maintainer of the vim package isn't writing in this language anymore, it may be hard to get a good "out of the box" experience with prepackaged solutions But if the result you get still satisfies you, maybe it's not worth chasing what everyone else is doing with neovim? A minimal hacking around your working vim configuration could get you further, or at least fix your pain points enough to make everything else less important. Also, you can't be certain that what the neovim elixir community find important, their pain points, will be identical to yours: hacking your own solution guarantees you'll be satisfied by it (because if you aren't, you can hack it some more :)

naniwaduni 3y ago

zsh isn't much less retro than bash is! They're, like, a year and a half apart; bash just has a special case of the GNU. (It's wild to me that despite *gestures wildly*, zsh's release tarball is under half the size of bash's, though...)