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Operation Snow White
- metabagel 3y agoOperation Clambake has a lot of information about Scientology. https://www.xenu.net/ https://www.xenu.net/ There is also an excellent documentary, Going Clear.
- Rediscover 3y agoSee also Dave Touretzky's homepage at CMU for a great take ("wacky") about Scientologists, and them appearing on the Carnegie Mellon campus. Oh, there's talk of DMCA, aviation, and Lisp on that page, too.
- PostOnce 3y agohttps://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/
- cs702 3y agoSee also the comedy "Bowfinger" with Steve Martin and Eddie Murphy. Martin, the writer, changed the name of the cult in the script from "Scientology" to "Mind-Head" to avoid legal action, but the script depicts and skewers how fully the cult wants to control the lives of its brainwashed members.
- roenxi 3y ago> It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history Really? There isn't a single group of people more motivated than the Scientologists who've tried to infiltrate the US government? The US government is the most powerful institution in human history. It controls more money in a year than the totality of almost every other individual country's annual GDP. It can kill billions of people in a couple of hours. The power here is staggering. And the Scientologists with 5k agents is one of the most serious attempt at getting into the guts of that and corrupting it? Seems unlikely, somehow. I'd suggest that the Scientologists were just crazy enough that the conspiracy was unwound. US federal politicians have a totally reasonable and expected corruption problem; this probably isn't one of the most major attempts. The US army routinely purges countries, purging unfavourable records is just so small-biscuits it is hard to believe.
- dawatchusay 3y ago> this probably isn't one of the most major attempts Perhaps one of the most major failed attempts. Also do we have to think about what groups might be most able to go undetected while infiltrating the IRS?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- trilbyglens 3y agoOur tax law is already so full of holes it's hard to believe that it would even be worthwhile to go to the trouble to corrupt the IRS...
- helpfulContrib 3y ago[dead]
- huytersd 3y agoIt’s possible. You have to have a lot of US citizen operatives to be able to pull off an infiltration and though places like China have the resources to pull it off (and probably do), it’s not all that easy.
- Barrin92 3y ago>There isn't a single group of people more motivated than the Scientologists Motivated maybe, but nation state actors have a much harder time. The WSJ just ran an article yesterday about how difficult it is for the US to rebuild espionage networks in China after a relatively large bust a decade ago[1]. The Soviet Illegals program never included that many people, it's fiendishly difficult to get people into influential positions of a hostile government. It's much easier for a cult who has access to tons of already citizens to just get a job somewhere. I mean, with all the religious protections, they could do it half openly almost. Case in point, the fact that Scientology still exists as an entity despite all these bizarre operations probably wouldn't work for many other actors [1]https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/american-spies-confront-a-new-formidable-china-5c384370 https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/american-spie...
- notbeuller 3y agoWatching alt.religion.scientology in 1993 was very much like ogling a road accident. It was so weird how the adherents would attack the people that were leaking their church secrets - they literally had a playbook to follow - I guess there just modern public relations now.
- kelseyfrog 3y agoSpeaking of leaking secrets, Operation Clambake[1] was perhaps the most formative early-internet website I visited in my youth. Examining secrets and mysteries of another religion was crucial to turning that lens inward and examining my own religious upbringing and eventual atheism. I don't think it's controversial to state that early internet had the same effect on many others as well. 1. https://www.xenu.net/ https://www.xenu.net/
- StevePerkins 3y agoProject Normandy is another fun read. They tried to basically seize control of the town of Clearwater, Florida. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Normandy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Normandy I know that Scientology has historically had a lot of influence in the entertainment industry. But I feel like that has seriously waned since its peak in the 1970's or 80's, so I'm surprised you don't see more of these episodes turned into movies or TV series.
- silisili 3y agoThey're seizing it now still in a way, via legal means. They've been purchasing everything they can get their hands on in downtown Clearwater for at least a few years now. From a person I talked to, so take with a grain of salt, the plan was to make the area uninteresting as to buy up even more that comes up for sale.
- TheCleric 3y agoYeah, walking through downtown Clearwater, there are times when you’ll be surrounded by nothing but Scientologists.
- silisili 3y agoThat's what I've heard from friends in the area. The downtown is dead and full of Scientologists, so people don't go there much anymore, so shops close and they buy them. Rinse and repeat.
- Simon_ORourke 3y ago> so shops close and they buy them. Rinse and repeat. So do they reopen then as shops again or as repurposed housing? I suppose the nightlife is pretty dull too?
- TheCleric 3y agoNot usually. They might turn them into offices, but they also have been known to just sit on real estate.
- buryat 3y agothey have their own navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org
- kazinator 3y ago> On the morning of November 1, the day before the meeting, a GO agent, Hermann, broke into the conference room and plugged the device into an electrical outlet. This device, in turn, then transmitted a signal on an FM frequency, which was picked up and recorded by Scientologists sitting in a car in the parking lot of the Smithsonian, which faced the office. After the meeting Hermann removed the device, and the taped recording of the meeting was sent to Los Angeles. That would make a great movie. I'd cast Tom Cruise as Hermann. Travolta could be the one in the car.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kelseyfrog 3y agoIs there a reason you cast the two most famously[1] Scientologist actors? 1. Arguably
- kazinator 3y agoTo create a fourth kind of irony in drama. Dramatic, situational and verbal have been done to death already.
- BLKNSLVR 3y agoIf that kinda thing went on in the last 20 years then Scientology would risk being declared a terrorist organisation. And it would be far less a gratuitous use of "terrorist" than some.
- porkbeer 3y agoIt literally is one. Look up seaorg.
- jl6 3y agoDefinitely the kind of authentic religious activity that deserves tax-exempt status.
- MarcScott 3y agoBeing responsible for moderating this wikipedia article must be one of the most time consuming and mundane pieces of unpaid work on the planet.
- tsimionescu 3y agoActually, if you look at the Talk and History pages, it's pretty tame. The edit protection of course helps a lot. If you want to see a page receiving constant drive-by editing and people who flat out ignore warnings because "they know better", look at the page for Electrocution [0], which has a terrible recurring war about whether it just means death, or death and (severe) injury. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Electrocution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Electrocutio...
- mlrtime 3y agoWait so "Electrocuted to death is redundant"?
- gosub100 3y agoinstead of wiki begging for funds, they should hold yearly supreme-court style argument about controversial topics. For electrocution, let's have 9 "justices", all professors in english, medicine, and electrical engineering/physics. Each side presents their arguments, judges publish their opinions, charge broadcast rights, make it a media event.
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
- sebastianconcpt 3y ago> As early as 1960, L. Ron Hubbard had proposed that Scientologists should infiltrate government departments by taking secretarial, bodyguard or other jobs. What similar situation can you think of doing the same but based on ideologues and targeting primarily universities?
- hef19898 3y agoSince I don't have an answer, who would that be? If you inow, that is, are not simply asking questions?
- lelanthran 3y agoI think he is talking about that Saul Alinsky book called, IIRC, rules for radicals, or something like that. It's the same basic playbook currently used to advance ideology based on identity culture I to various institutions. TBH, it might only be coincidental that the playbooks match.
- 15457345234 3y agoSee also: The Long March Through The Institutions
- sebastianconcpt 3y agoThanks for the reference. The Long March Through the Institutions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEt9XepeGt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEt9XepeGt4
- lupusreal 3y ago> it might only be coincidental that the playbooks match. Not coincidence, but probably "convergent evolution"; much of it is just common sense effective tactics.
- 1986 3y agoThe Federalist Society
- benjijay 3y agoI am regularly confounded by the existence of scientology; are cults just that popular? Are people really so easily duped? Is this all a social experiment that's gotten way out of hand?
- ponector 3y agoYes, people are easily duped. Some of them are lonely and eagerly accept whatever church will take care about them. To feel like you are a part of something more, to feel that your life has a meaning. Also it is much easier to accept views of the skilled salesman than think by yourself.
- YoshiRulz 3y agoThere are only tens of thousands of members[1]. That's comparable to the viewership of a popular Twitch streamer (there's a joke about differing business models in here somewhere...). If you're genuinely interested in the rise and fall of Scientology and have a half-hour to spare, I can recommend [2], and other videos in that series examining fringe religions. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Demographics [2]: https://youtu.be/xSlYVGNQiFs https://youtu.be/xSlYVGNQiFs
- benjijay 3y agoI've seen my share of docu-minis about them - for better or worse I spent an amount of time on the 'chans back when the whole thing with 'anonymous vs scientology' all kicked off, which is partly why I'm so confounded by its apparent success; at risk of setting off some automoderation or angering xyz group - scientology feels more obviously culty and bs than the other bs cults, but people readily (literally) buy into it wholesale
- Meekro 3y agoInteresting point, but I doubt many Twitch streamers could convince their audience to break into an IRS building on their behalf.
- somenameforme 3y ago
- rabbits_2002 3y agoTheres an apartment complex I pass by sometimes that has huge buses with “FLAG” written on them going back and forth from “Flag Building” in Clearwater constantly. The buses are operating at like 3am sometimes. I wonder what they are doing.
- beretguy 3y agoOK, I also want to know now.
- trms 3y agoFor anyone curious what the buses look like: https://maps.app.goo.gl/nQd4EupFcdDBcXaw9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/nQd4EupFcdDBcXaw9
- rabbits_2002 3y agoyep those are the ones
- Halong 3y agoFinally decided to do a deep dive and find out what all the fuss is about. Feel like I need a shower now.