8 ms·

I feel piracy today is pretty morally excused.

paulcole 3y ago
I don’t. I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for and I feel bad about taking things that I know I shouldn’t. And I don’t subscribe to the “but my HTTP requests” rationalization that’s so common here on HN.
- argiopetech 3y ago
  Out of personal curiosity, how far does this go for you? Would you download (without paying for) - an old film (the Maltese Falcon, Wizard of Oz, Wings [1927 silent film]) - a really bad film (Santa Claus Conquers the Martians) - something you already own but don't have access to at the moment - anime - none of the above?
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >- anime Are you expecting they might have some beef with Japan in particular?
    - argiopetech 3y ago
      Perhaps I should have generalized to "cartoons", or whatever watch-once fluff you might spend an hour or four a week on.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - pierat 3y ago
    When buying isnt owning, then piracy is ethical. Its gone too fucking long towards extreme copyright and gimmee programs like the DMCA. Piracy is that counteracting force. Pirate it all. No other lever can make these companies correct.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    None of the above. If I want to watch an old film, a bad film, or an old bad film, I pay for it or I don’t watch it. I’ve bought films on Amazon rather than get off my butt to put the DVD in the player. So you can guess that if I don’t have access to it at the moment that I’ll pay for it. I bought the DVD, I didn’t buy the right to download the movie (unless it was one of those DVDs with a download code included). I have 0 interest in anime.
    - argiopetech 3y ago
      Thanks for taking the time to reply and satisfy my mostly aimless curiosity. As mentioned in a sibling, I probably should have gone with "cartoons" or "drivel" or similar for that category, but "anime" is my particular bias for that category of time waster
- comprev 3y ago
  Wait until you're 90% through a TV show and your streaming provider removes it from their catalogue. Would you buy the DVD boxset or perhaps the final season? Or maybe download the last few episodes?
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >Wait until you're 90% through a TV show and your streaming provider removes it from their catalogue. Or Sony just steals it from you.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    I mean I don’t get that worked up over those things. I would just buy the DVD if I really wanted to see it. I wouldn’t download the last few episodes.
- silisili 3y ago
  What about things that aren't even available anymore any way but 'pirating'? I can think of two movies in recent times that just don't exist to rent or buy from any service, likely due to disputes of some nature.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    > What about things that aren't even available anymore any way but 'pirating'? This isn’t as tricky as you think it is! You don’t watch, read, listen to, play, etc. those things.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      So you let some corpo decide what you're allowed to watch or read? I used to take the "this content is not available in your region" when trying to buy a kindle book as an excuse to pirate. If they don't want my money, they clearly don't care. Now I stopped caring altogether though.
      - paulcole 3y ago
        No, I decide what I watch and read. There’s plenty of things to watch and read. If something isn’t available legally to me, I’ll find something else.
- yladiz 3y ago
  > I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for and I feel bad about taking things that I know I shouldn’t. I used to think kind of like this, but came to the realization that it doesn't matter, at least for movies. First, it's not "people" that expect you to pay for it, it's corporations, and they don't really make money from you directly; if you pirated a movie instead of buying it, it really makes no difference, because either they came out in the cinema and the companies expect to make as much money as possible from the cinema ticket sales, or it came out on streaming which has a really muddy economic calculation. It's much different than, for example, a band's album on Bandcamp or a short film on Vimeo. Second, you're not even really "taking" something in the sense that you're not depriving someone else of the thing you have now, because it's digital, unlike if you stole a Blu-ray from someone's home or off of a shelf. Thirdly, sometimes it's legitimately not possible to get certain media other than pirating. There are multiple movies that I've wanted to watch and pay for but couldn't because of rights issues, and in those situations I'd have no option but to pirate or ask a friend to "get" me a copy. Essentially, if it's a small artist or filmmaker, support them directly, and if you want to see a movie, go to the cinema to watch it if you can. Shows might be a different matter, but I also think they fall under the same "streaming economics" model where the pirate makes little/no difference in reality and you often can't even pay for the show individually if you wanted to.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for If the deal is I give the seller money and get the product, that's fine. But if next month the seller says actually now even though you're paying me I'm going to show you ads anyways, or yeah you gave me money but I've decided to take back the product without refunding you[0]... it is easy to become sympathetic to pirates. [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/playstation-is-erasing-1318-seasons-of-discovery-shows-from-customer-libraries/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/playstation-is-erasi...
Seattle3503 3y ago
Why is that?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wannacboatmovie 3y ago
So by this logic if the supermarket increased the price of bananas beyond a certain arbitrary threshold you set it becomes okay to steal them? As opposed to, shopping elsewhere, or not eating bananas.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  I would get the free, cloned, indistinguishable bananas from the dodgy guy in the alley beside the supermarket.
- hightrix 3y ago
  No. Because pirating media is no where equivalent to stealing bananas. Stealing a banana deprives the store of the banana and the revenue from the sale of the banana. Pirating media does not deprive anyone of anything. And no, pirated media does not equal lost sale. It does not remove the media from the streaming site nor does it prevent the streaming site from profiting from the piece of media. People need to stop making this analogy as is does not work for digital media.
  - wannacboatmovie 3y ago
    Sorry, can you provide a link to the official list of things that are okay to steal? Are taxes and parking tickets on the list? I feel like I shouldn't have to pay those. > Pirating media does not deprive anyone of anything. And no, pirated media does not equal lost sale. What about software? Should we not have to pay for that either? What about the software you make a living writing? Is that exempt from the list?
    - hightrix 3y ago
      Pirating media is not stealing.
    - travoc 3y ago
      When you read a free book at the public library instead of paying the publisher for it, are you stealing?
monetus 3y ago
It is wild how many things I have discovered through piracy but eventually spent a boatload of money on. Music piracy in particular has been like free advertising ime.
thinkingemote 3y ago
It's like an evil for an evil. Robbing a rich man to buy your kids the latest shoes. It is tending towards robin hood but it's not yet in the "to buy foods to survive" category where the moral argument is better defined.

I don’t. I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for and I feel bad about taking things that I know I shouldn’t. And I don’t subscribe to the “but my HTTP requests” rationalization that’s so common here on HN.

argiopetech 3y ago
Out of personal curiosity, how far does this go for you? Would you download (without paying for) - an old film (the Maltese Falcon, Wizard of Oz, Wings [1927 silent film]) - a really bad film (Santa Claus Conquers the Martians) - something you already own but don't have access to at the moment - anime - none of the above?
- thfuran 3y ago
  >- anime Are you expecting they might have some beef with Japan in particular?
  - argiopetech 3y ago
    Perhaps I should have generalized to "cartoons", or whatever watch-once fluff you might spend an hour or four a week on.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- pierat 3y ago
  When buying isnt owning, then piracy is ethical. Its gone too fucking long towards extreme copyright and gimmee programs like the DMCA. Piracy is that counteracting force. Pirate it all. No other lever can make these companies correct.
- paulcole 3y ago
  None of the above. If I want to watch an old film, a bad film, or an old bad film, I pay for it or I don’t watch it. I’ve bought films on Amazon rather than get off my butt to put the DVD in the player. So you can guess that if I don’t have access to it at the moment that I’ll pay for it. I bought the DVD, I didn’t buy the right to download the movie (unless it was one of those DVDs with a download code included). I have 0 interest in anime.
  - argiopetech 3y ago
    Thanks for taking the time to reply and satisfy my mostly aimless curiosity. As mentioned in a sibling, I probably should have gone with "cartoons" or "drivel" or similar for that category, but "anime" is my particular bias for that category of time waster
comprev 3y ago
Wait until you're 90% through a TV show and your streaming provider removes it from their catalogue. Would you buy the DVD boxset or perhaps the final season? Or maybe download the last few episodes?
- thfuran 3y ago
  >Wait until you're 90% through a TV show and your streaming provider removes it from their catalogue. Or Sony just steals it from you.
- paulcole 3y ago
  I mean I don’t get that worked up over those things. I would just buy the DVD if I really wanted to see it. I wouldn’t download the last few episodes.
silisili 3y ago
What about things that aren't even available anymore any way but 'pirating'? I can think of two movies in recent times that just don't exist to rent or buy from any service, likely due to disputes of some nature.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > What about things that aren't even available anymore any way but 'pirating'? This isn’t as tricky as you think it is! You don’t watch, read, listen to, play, etc. those things.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    So you let some corpo decide what you're allowed to watch or read? I used to take the "this content is not available in your region" when trying to buy a kindle book as an excuse to pirate. If they don't want my money, they clearly don't care. Now I stopped caring altogether though.
    - paulcole 3y ago
      No, I decide what I watch and read. There’s plenty of things to watch and read. If something isn’t available legally to me, I’ll find something else.
yladiz 3y ago
> I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for and I feel bad about taking things that I know I shouldn’t. I used to think kind of like this, but came to the realization that it doesn't matter, at least for movies. First, it's not "people" that expect you to pay for it, it's corporations, and they don't really make money from you directly; if you pirated a movie instead of buying it, it really makes no difference, because either they came out in the cinema and the companies expect to make as much money as possible from the cinema ticket sales, or it came out on streaming which has a really muddy economic calculation. It's much different than, for example, a band's album on Bandcamp or a short film on Vimeo. Second, you're not even really "taking" something in the sense that you're not depriving someone else of the thing you have now, because it's digital, unlike if you stole a Blu-ray from someone's home or off of a shelf. Thirdly, sometimes it's legitimately not possible to get certain media other than pirating. There are multiple movies that I've wanted to watch and pay for but couldn't because of rights issues, and in those situations I'd have no option but to pirate or ask a friend to "get" me a copy. Essentially, if it's a small artist or filmmaker, support them directly, and if you want to see a movie, go to the cinema to watch it if you can. Shows might be a different matter, but I also think they fall under the same "streaming economics" model where the pirate makes little/no difference in reality and you often can't even pay for the show individually if you wanted to.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> I know there are things that people expect me to pay money for If the deal is I give the seller money and get the product, that's fine. But if next month the seller says actually now even though you're paying me I'm going to show you ads anyways, or yeah you gave me money but I've decided to take back the product without refunding you[0]... it is easy to become sympathetic to pirates. [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/playstation-is-erasing-1318-seasons-of-discovery-shows-from-customer-libraries/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/playstation-is-erasi...

Seattle3503 3y ago

Why is that?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wannacboatmovie 3y ago

So by this logic if the supermarket increased the price of bananas beyond a certain arbitrary threshold you set it becomes okay to steal them? As opposed to, shopping elsewhere, or not eating bananas.

thebruce87m 3y ago
I would get the free, cloned, indistinguishable bananas from the dodgy guy in the alley beside the supermarket.
hightrix 3y ago
No. Because pirating media is no where equivalent to stealing bananas. Stealing a banana deprives the store of the banana and the revenue from the sale of the banana. Pirating media does not deprive anyone of anything. And no, pirated media does not equal lost sale. It does not remove the media from the streaming site nor does it prevent the streaming site from profiting from the piece of media. People need to stop making this analogy as is does not work for digital media.
- wannacboatmovie 3y ago
  Sorry, can you provide a link to the official list of things that are okay to steal? Are taxes and parking tickets on the list? I feel like I shouldn't have to pay those. > Pirating media does not deprive anyone of anything. And no, pirated media does not equal lost sale. What about software? Should we not have to pay for that either? What about the software you make a living writing? Is that exempt from the list?
  - hightrix 3y ago
    Pirating media is not stealing.
  - travoc 3y ago
    When you read a free book at the public library instead of paying the publisher for it, are you stealing?

monetus 3y ago

It is wild how many things I have discovered through piracy but eventually spent a boatload of money on. Music piracy in particular has been like free advertising ime.

thinkingemote 3y ago

It's like an evil for an evil. Robbing a rich man to buy your kids the latest shoes. It is tending towards robin hood but it's not yet in the "to buy foods to survive" category where the moral argument is better defined.