7 ms·

Products like these make me realize that a standard e-reader has the perfect general purpose e-ink display. The Kindle for example is about the same size as thi

by paxys 3y ago

Products like these make me realize that a standard e-reader has the perfect general purpose e-ink display. The Kindle for example is about the same size as this but much sleeker, is backlit, multi-tone, has a battery, wifi, bluetooth, all for less than half the price. I wish there were more mainstream jailbreaking projects and alternative operating systems to really unlock their potential.

ghostly_s 3y ago
You're comparing a product from one of the largest companies on earth with an upstart. and even the cheapest ad-supported Kindle is only 2/3 the price of this in US?
- paxys 3y ago
  The cheapest Kindle is routinely on sale for $60-70. And spec wise there is really no comparison. The Kindle has a backlight. 1448x1072 resolution (compared to this one's 800x480). Battery that can last a month. USB-C. 16GB storage. Bluetooth. It's a very capable device. The fact that this one is made by an "upstart" means nothing. You have to compete on price and quality to be successful. Plus if this company goes out of business and shuts their servers you are left with a $150 paperweight.
  - Timshel 3y ago
    Tracking on keepa lowest price is 95$ (https://keepa.com/#!product/1-B0B92489PD https://keepa.com/#!product/1-B0B92489PD) and it's the 6inch. The 6.8inch has not been under 120$. Anyway yes the Kindle has better spec but as you mentionned in your first post the fact that it's locked is the whole point. Amazon is not making money on the device ...
    - nolongerthere 3y ago
      Keepa doesn’t always tell the whole story as it can’t track coupons and in-cart discounts, which Amazon regularly uses especially for their own products to hide the real lowest price from price trackers and scrapers.
  - a1o 3y ago
    > if this company goes out of business and shuts their servers you are left with a $150 paperweight Wait, this doesn't work offline or just in a local network? Why does this has to phone home?
- yftsui 3y ago
  The largest company you mentioned outsourced the manufacture to factories like Foxconn. A common pattern of those "upstart" is they are just a different thin wrapper around some other factories, with a crappier spec but able to sell the BOM with higher prices.
Rebelgecko 3y ago
I dont have the link handy, but there's a company that sells 6-8 inch eink screens that are just recycled kindle parts with a more hobbyist-friendly interface attached
- merelysounds 3y ago
  Sounds interesting! I found the following (below); was it that? https://soldered.com/product/soldered-inkplate-6plus-with-enclosure-e-paper-display-with-touchscreen-usb-only/ https://soldered.com/product/soldered-inkplate-6plus-with-en... > What is especially interesting is that Inkplate uses recycled screens taken from old e-book readers (...)
  - samstave 3y ago
    Are there any touch screen/sensitive e-inks - such that you could have one as usb WACOM tablet with a pen?
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      Yes. E.g.: <https://onyxboox.com/boox_tabx https://onyxboox.com/boox_tabx> (See the specs section.) Touch + Wacom/stylus interface.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    I think so! Unfortunately they're actually more expensive than buying a Kindle, but I guess that's the price you pay for something that's conviently hackable
konschubert 3y ago
Yea, when you make like a million of these you have different economies of scale, plus an ability to negotiate with suppliers. This is the power of making a product at huge scale. The amount of technology I can buy in a $90 Android phone is mind boggling.
- esperent 3y ago
  More like a 100 million, from a quick Google search. It seems highly unfair to complain that a small company can't match Amazon's pricing.
- beAbU 3y ago
  Also consider that the devices you mention are probably heavily subsidised. The kindle is a gateway drug into the rest of the Amazon ecosystem, and you probably need some form of subscription to get full use out of it, or at the least you need to buy ebooks on Amazon for it. The $90 phone probably comes with facebook and other social apps + bloatware pre-installed, that no doubt ended up there because of some commercial deal.
  - dmd 3y ago
    The (eink) kindle is a fabulous device and in absolutely no way requires you to buy ebooks from Amazon. you can just plug it in and put Mobi files on it.
    - ornornor 3y ago
      Very few non tech people realize that. I’d wager the overwhelming majority buy a kindle and then get 100% of their books off BezosBazaar.
      - magospietato 3y ago
        The convenience factor of the BezosBazaar can't be underestimated. I have no interest in maintaining a digital library these days, and the walls of the Kindle garden just aren't that impactful when you read maybe a dozen books a year.
arsome 3y ago
Kobos are pretty trivially jailbroken if you're looking for a similar competitive device.
- esperent 3y ago
  Old Kobos were awesome, I had one for years running Kohreader. Sadly I lost it. Then when I researched new Kobos, about two years ago, it seemed like the quality has gone down a lot as the company has been sold several times. Is that still the case?
  - 6bb32646d83d 3y ago
    I use a Kobo Libra 2 and I find it great. It replaced my Paperwhite. It's easy enough to side load apps if you want too (but I find that I don't - I just need it to read books and it does that well)
  - TheFreim 3y ago
    I picked up a Libra H2O a while back, I've had no issues whatsoever. I used the default software without issue before discovering KOReader, installation was easy. The hardware is very solid, have not noticed any problems with the outside casing, screen, or issues related to power.
  - ornornor 3y ago
    I have two Clara HD and they’re pretty good. They just work. I use Calibre with them. Inside is a micro SD card so if I ever need more storage I can just clone the original SD and extend the partition to upgrade the storage. The Kobo are so much better than the kindle imho: more open, not locked down, and the typesetting engine is Mike’s ahead: no ragged edges or page long rivers unlike I was getting on the kindle.
chrisco255 3y ago
The main reason there isn't is because e-ink tech is controlled by a company with a strict and expensive licensing arrangement. Until the patent expires, we're unlikely to realize the technology's full potential.
- Qwertious 3y ago
  This is a myth, endlessly repeated without a source. Not only have the original patents expired, but there's a competing tech called Display Electronic Slurry (DES, or the cofferdam tech). The real reason e-ink hasn't seen much innovation is that it's a tiny niche market, because e-ink is useful for e-readers and not much else. In contrast, LCDs are produced at a rate of billions per quarter, which gives room for lots of companies to compete furiously.
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    E ink would be great for almost any tiny device that currently uses 1" OLEDs or 7segment displays, if it could be made cheap enough.
- braunboffel 3y ago
  > The main reason there isn't is because e-ink tech is controlled by a company with a strict and expensive licensing arrangement When? Where? How? Is this based on your direct experience? Please share some evidence so that your claims can be verified.
landgenoot 3y ago
You can also flash electronic shelf labels and display your own content on it. They work over ZigBee https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2167906 https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2167906 (in Dutch)

by paxys 3y ago

ghostly_s 3y ago

You're comparing a product from one of the largest companies on earth with an upstart. and even the cheapest ad-supported Kindle is only 2/3 the price of this in US?

paxys 3y ago
The cheapest Kindle is routinely on sale for $60-70. And spec wise there is really no comparison. The Kindle has a backlight. 1448x1072 resolution (compared to this one's 800x480). Battery that can last a month. USB-C. 16GB storage. Bluetooth. It's a very capable device. The fact that this one is made by an "upstart" means nothing. You have to compete on price and quality to be successful. Plus if this company goes out of business and shuts their servers you are left with a $150 paperweight.
- Timshel 3y ago
  Tracking on keepa lowest price is 95$ (https://keepa.com/#!product/1-B0B92489PD https://keepa.com/#!product/1-B0B92489PD) and it's the 6inch. The 6.8inch has not been under 120$. Anyway yes the Kindle has better spec but as you mentionned in your first post the fact that it's locked is the whole point. Amazon is not making money on the device ...
  - nolongerthere 3y ago
    Keepa doesn’t always tell the whole story as it can’t track coupons and in-cart discounts, which Amazon regularly uses especially for their own products to hide the real lowest price from price trackers and scrapers.
- a1o 3y ago
  > if this company goes out of business and shuts their servers you are left with a $150 paperweight Wait, this doesn't work offline or just in a local network? Why does this has to phone home?
yftsui 3y ago
The largest company you mentioned outsourced the manufacture to factories like Foxconn. A common pattern of those "upstart" is they are just a different thin wrapper around some other factories, with a crappier spec but able to sell the BOM with higher prices.

Rebelgecko 3y ago

I dont have the link handy, but there's a company that sells 6-8 inch eink screens that are just recycled kindle parts with a more hobbyist-friendly interface attached

merelysounds 3y ago
Sounds interesting! I found the following (below); was it that? https://soldered.com/product/soldered-inkplate-6plus-with-enclosure-e-paper-display-with-touchscreen-usb-only/ https://soldered.com/product/soldered-inkplate-6plus-with-en... > What is especially interesting is that Inkplate uses recycled screens taken from old e-book readers (...)
- samstave 3y ago
  Are there any touch screen/sensitive e-inks - such that you could have one as usb WACOM tablet with a pen?
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    Yes. E.g.: <https://onyxboox.com/boox_tabx https://onyxboox.com/boox_tabx> (See the specs section.) Touch + Wacom/stylus interface.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  I think so! Unfortunately they're actually more expensive than buying a Kindle, but I guess that's the price you pay for something that's conviently hackable

konschubert 3y ago

Yea, when you make like a million of these you have different economies of scale, plus an ability to negotiate with suppliers. This is the power of making a product at huge scale. The amount of technology I can buy in a $90 Android phone is mind boggling.

esperent 3y ago
More like a 100 million, from a quick Google search. It seems highly unfair to complain that a small company can't match Amazon's pricing.
beAbU 3y ago
Also consider that the devices you mention are probably heavily subsidised. The kindle is a gateway drug into the rest of the Amazon ecosystem, and you probably need some form of subscription to get full use out of it, or at the least you need to buy ebooks on Amazon for it. The $90 phone probably comes with facebook and other social apps + bloatware pre-installed, that no doubt ended up there because of some commercial deal.
- dmd 3y ago
  The (eink) kindle is a fabulous device and in absolutely no way requires you to buy ebooks from Amazon. you can just plug it in and put Mobi files on it.
  - ornornor 3y ago
    Very few non tech people realize that. I’d wager the overwhelming majority buy a kindle and then get 100% of their books off BezosBazaar.
    - magospietato 3y ago
      The convenience factor of the BezosBazaar can't be underestimated. I have no interest in maintaining a digital library these days, and the walls of the Kindle garden just aren't that impactful when you read maybe a dozen books a year.

arsome 3y ago

Kobos are pretty trivially jailbroken if you're looking for a similar competitive device.

esperent 3y ago
Old Kobos were awesome, I had one for years running Kohreader. Sadly I lost it. Then when I researched new Kobos, about two years ago, it seemed like the quality has gone down a lot as the company has been sold several times. Is that still the case?
- 6bb32646d83d 3y ago
  I use a Kobo Libra 2 and I find it great. It replaced my Paperwhite. It's easy enough to side load apps if you want too (but I find that I don't - I just need it to read books and it does that well)
- TheFreim 3y ago
  I picked up a Libra H2O a while back, I've had no issues whatsoever. I used the default software without issue before discovering KOReader, installation was easy. The hardware is very solid, have not noticed any problems with the outside casing, screen, or issues related to power.
- ornornor 3y ago
  I have two Clara HD and they’re pretty good. They just work. I use Calibre with them. Inside is a micro SD card so if I ever need more storage I can just clone the original SD and extend the partition to upgrade the storage. The Kobo are so much better than the kindle imho: more open, not locked down, and the typesetting engine is Mike’s ahead: no ragged edges or page long rivers unlike I was getting on the kindle.

chrisco255 3y ago

The main reason there isn't is because e-ink tech is controlled by a company with a strict and expensive licensing arrangement. Until the patent expires, we're unlikely to realize the technology's full potential.

Qwertious 3y ago
This is a myth, endlessly repeated without a source. Not only have the original patents expired, but there's a competing tech called Display Electronic Slurry (DES, or the cofferdam tech). The real reason e-ink hasn't seen much innovation is that it's a tiny niche market, because e-ink is useful for e-readers and not much else. In contrast, LCDs are produced at a rate of billions per quarter, which gives room for lots of companies to compete furiously.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  E ink would be great for almost any tiny device that currently uses 1" OLEDs or 7segment displays, if it could be made cheap enough.
braunboffel 3y ago
> The main reason there isn't is because e-ink tech is controlled by a company with a strict and expensive licensing arrangement When? Where? How? Is this based on your direct experience? Please share some evidence so that your claims can be verified.

landgenoot 3y ago

You can also flash electronic shelf labels and display your own content on it. They work over ZigBee https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2167906 https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2167906 (in Dutch)