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>How come there isn’t a predator collar that releases pepper spray when wolves go in for the throat kill? Seems like we should be able to make livestock unattra

>How come there isn’t a predator collar that releases pepper spray when wolves go in for the throat kill? Seems like we should be able to make livestock unattractive targets with some kind of technology like this and do some reinforcement learning to prevent this conflict. Beyond the initial challenges of figuring out how a collar can precisely and accurately predict when an animal is about to begin a specific type of attack and then react before enough damage can be done, you've also then got to be able to refill the pepper spray throughout the animal's life, ensure that each and every animal born into each and every pack gets a collar, etc. Just seems wildly unviable. Edit: There's also the nuance around the fact that the wolf has to eat at some point, and usually this will involve killing another wild animal. The collar would have to be able to accurately differentiate between "allowed to kill" and "not allowed to kill", which seems... difficult. I'm not sure that a simple bit of geofencing or whathaveyou would be good enough in these situations.

happytiger 3y ago
Does it? Wouldn’t it just need to be economically viable and isn’t that something that could be calculated? Aren’t the losses significant enough to pay for a fairly large program? If not, why is this a concern to ranchers? And wouldn’t most of the collars not be used and be more like insurance which we already have and use on most herds? Your summary dismissal without consideration and downvote don’t follow common sense. And let me tell you a lot of the biggest market opportunities are found inside of places people tell you you’re an idiot for even exploring. Be mindful. Stripe and Gusto and oceans of others were solved problems. If it’s a big enough problem to support an insurance industry surely $10 worth of pepper spray and a $50 reusable collar would be in budget. Edit: regarding your edit, this has already been demonstrated in janguars. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159123001557 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815912... Also a meta study: https://environmentalevidencejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13750-019-0153-7 https://environmentalevidencejournal.biomedcentral.com/artic... This study has a killer quote: “Everyone knew there were wolves in the mountains… but they seldom came near the village - the modern wolves were the offspring of ancestors that had survived because they had learned that human meat had sharp edges.” Please consider being less hasty to dismiss unconventional thinking. Let’s keep HN weird thinking friend?
- bhickey 3y ago
  You're talking about an industry that's unwilling to spend $10 to vaccinate herd animals. > Please consider being less hasty to dismiss unconventional thinking. Let’s keep HN weird thinking friend? Friend you're approaching a problem you know nothing about and complaining about being dismissed... by someone who took the time to explain why your tenuously informed idea will never work.
  - happytiger 3y ago
    Disappointing response. Don’t make generalizations or confuse explorative questions for broad naïveté. The issue I take with your approach here is that you’re focused on making the other person feel wrong, on the wrong path and assuming they know nothing (implied: idiot) rather than exploring ideas and solutions to novel problems. That’s a common pattern in the world (ad hominem), but it doesn’t do much in innovation circles or have much of a place in early stage innovation practice. I have a fair amount of experience in ag, and ag insurance, but not predator collars. I’m cool with being downvoted for having an unpopular idea but please be more conscious: not everyone would speak up to your behavior and it’s quite unnecessary. Try to attack what’s wrong with the idea not the person. You are literally on here telling me that my ideas will never work. It’s a lot cliché and not just a little bit hilarious. Don’t do it. Haha.* I’m ok being dumb when exploring ideas, and that’s actually ok. Or it should be. At least on HN.
    - zztop44 3y ago
      Your comment looks a lot like a common trope on this site: people encountering a problem they know little about, thinking for 20 seconds, and saying “You could just…” And that’s annoying because it’s arrogant and it invalidates people who have dedicated their lives and careers to that work. But rereading your initial comment, I think it was actually framed as invitation for discussion rather than an “obvious simple solution”. Don’t let it worry you too much. Sometimes shit just gets downvoted!
      - happytiger 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gwbas1c 3y ago
> ensure that each and every animal born into each and every pack gets a collar, etc. The collar goes onto the livestock, not the wild animal.
- jjulius 3y ago
  D'oh! I don't know how that didn't occur to me. Thank you for pointing that out. Edit: Totes happy with my previous comment being downvoted, because it's clearly a bad take in hindsight, but this one? The one where I kindly go, "Oh shit, duh, how stupid of me"? Seriously? Y'all do you, lol...

happytiger 3y ago

Does it? Wouldn’t it just need to be economically viable and isn’t that something that could be calculated? Aren’t the losses significant enough to pay for a fairly large program? If not, why is this a concern to ranchers? And wouldn’t most of the collars not be used and be more like insurance which we already have and use on most herds? Your summary dismissal without consideration and downvote don’t follow common sense. And let me tell you a lot of the biggest market opportunities are found inside of places people tell you you’re an idiot for even exploring. Be mindful. Stripe and Gusto and oceans of others were solved problems. If it’s a big enough problem to support an insurance industry surely $10 worth of pepper spray and a $50 reusable collar would be in budget. Edit: regarding your edit, this has already been demonstrated in janguars. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159123001557 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815912... Also a meta study: https://environmentalevidencejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13750-019-0153-7 https://environmentalevidencejournal.biomedcentral.com/artic... This study has a killer quote: “Everyone knew there were wolves in the mountains… but they seldom came near the village - the modern wolves were the offspring of ancestors that had survived because they had learned that human meat had sharp edges.” Please consider being less hasty to dismiss unconventional thinking. Let’s keep HN weird thinking friend?

bhickey 3y ago
You're talking about an industry that's unwilling to spend $10 to vaccinate herd animals. > Please consider being less hasty to dismiss unconventional thinking. Let’s keep HN weird thinking friend? Friend you're approaching a problem you know nothing about and complaining about being dismissed... by someone who took the time to explain why your tenuously informed idea will never work.
- happytiger 3y ago
  Disappointing response. Don’t make generalizations or confuse explorative questions for broad naïveté. The issue I take with your approach here is that you’re focused on making the other person feel wrong, on the wrong path and assuming they know nothing (implied: idiot) rather than exploring ideas and solutions to novel problems. That’s a common pattern in the world (ad hominem), but it doesn’t do much in innovation circles or have much of a place in early stage innovation practice. I have a fair amount of experience in ag, and ag insurance, but not predator collars. I’m cool with being downvoted for having an unpopular idea but please be more conscious: not everyone would speak up to your behavior and it’s quite unnecessary. Try to attack what’s wrong with the idea not the person. You are literally on here telling me that my ideas will never work. It’s a lot cliché and not just a little bit hilarious. Don’t do it. Haha.* I’m ok being dumb when exploring ideas, and that’s actually ok. Or it should be. At least on HN.
  - zztop44 3y ago
    Your comment looks a lot like a common trope on this site: people encountering a problem they know little about, thinking for 20 seconds, and saying “You could just…” And that’s annoying because it’s arrogant and it invalidates people who have dedicated their lives and careers to that work. But rereading your initial comment, I think it was actually framed as invitation for discussion rather than an “obvious simple solution”. Don’t let it worry you too much. Sometimes shit just gets downvoted!
    - happytiger 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gwbas1c 3y ago

> ensure that each and every animal born into each and every pack gets a collar, etc. The collar goes onto the livestock, not the wild animal.

jjulius 3y ago
D'oh! I don't know how that didn't occur to me. Thank you for pointing that out. Edit: Totes happy with my previous comment being downvoted, because it's clearly a bad take in hindsight, but this one? The one where I kindly go, "Oh shit, duh, how stupid of me"? Seriously? Y'all do you, lol...