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This claim is unproven. Russia may have mistakenly blown up their own ship:)

by strangattractor 3y ago

mtmail 3y ago
The article quotes the Ukranian president and the Russian president’s spokesman. In my eyes that makes it proven.
- Someone 3y ago
  Makes what proven? The two parties make different claims. Ukraine says destroyed, Russia says damaged (the title of this HN post is correct in that it copies that of the article, but that title isn’t correct) Ukraine probably doesn’t want to lie, but may be willing to exaggerate a bit to boost morale of their troops, with the risk of getting caught when more becomes clear of this attack. Similarly, Russia may be willing to play down the effects, and has it easier in that “damaged” covers a very wide range, from “hit by one bullet, a window got broken” to “sunk in port after explosions, salvageable, but building a new one would be cheaper”. See also the BBCs reporting at https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515, which currently is cautious not to declare the ship destroyed.
- strangattractor 3y ago
  First of all :) indicates I was joking. Second which situation would be viewed worse by the Kremlin 1. Admitting your enemy blew up your ship or 2. Admitting you stupidly or ineptly blew up your own ship by accident. I would go with the Kremlin would tend to avoid looking inept or stupid and prefer people believe the enemy blew up their ship. In war, truth is the first casualty. -Aeschylus
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    > I would go with the Kremlin would tend to avoid looking inept or stupid and prefer people believe the enemy blew up their ship I would think the Kremlin would go with the option that doesn't give their enemy any credit for being able to hurt them. You can pin your own incompetence on a few miscreants who can be punished, but the enemy's capacity for success is something entirely out of your control. Authoritarian states need to seem strong, even when losing.

This claim is unproven. Russia may have mistakenly blown up their own ship:)

mtmail 3y ago

The article quotes the Ukranian president and the Russian president’s spokesman. In my eyes that makes it proven.

Someone 3y ago
Makes what proven? The two parties make different claims. Ukraine says destroyed, Russia says damaged (the title of this HN post is correct in that it copies that of the article, but that title isn’t correct) Ukraine probably doesn’t want to lie, but may be willing to exaggerate a bit to boost morale of their troops, with the risk of getting caught when more becomes clear of this attack. Similarly, Russia may be willing to play down the effects, and has it easier in that “damaged” covers a very wide range, from “hit by one bullet, a window got broken” to “sunk in port after explosions, salvageable, but building a new one would be cheaper”. See also the BBCs reporting at https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515, which currently is cautious not to declare the ship destroyed.
strangattractor 3y ago
First of all :) indicates I was joking. Second which situation would be viewed worse by the Kremlin 1. Admitting your enemy blew up your ship or 2. Admitting you stupidly or ineptly blew up your own ship by accident. I would go with the Kremlin would tend to avoid looking inept or stupid and prefer people believe the enemy blew up their ship. In war, truth is the first casualty. -Aeschylus
- meepmorp 3y ago
  > I would go with the Kremlin would tend to avoid looking inept or stupid and prefer people believe the enemy blew up their ship I would think the Kremlin would go with the option that doesn't give their enemy any credit for being able to hurt them. You can pin your own incompetence on a few miscreants who can be punished, but the enemy's capacity for success is something entirely out of your control. Authoritarian states need to seem strong, even when losing.