3 ms·

> there are a large number of people who only have one console Iphone or Android, yeah. Basically nobody only have a Playstation or a Nintendo.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
There are definitely people who only have one console. Consoles cost money. Some people aren't rich.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Phones are game consoles, people who only have one game console today have a phone.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Phones are power-constrained devices with small screens. Consoles consume >100 watts under load with correspondingly higher performance and are connected to televisions. These are not the same market. They don't play the same games. Arguably gaming PCs (i.e. fast PCs with a suitable GPU) are in the same market, but this hasn't really added a competitor because Xbox and gaming PCs are both Microsoft, and most people don't have gaming PCs either.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > Consoles consume >100 watts under load with correspondingly higher performance and are connected to televisions Not handheld consoles. And you can connect phones to large screens if you want. > They don't play the same games. Genshin impact and fortninte? They could play the same kind of games, they have weaker hardware so graphics wont be there true but they are still devices people play all kinds of games on. > These are not the same market Why not? Wasn't the original argument that these things are the same and therefore should be regulated the same? How do you differentiate "gaming console" from other computers? People will only buy gaming consoles as long as they are better for gaming than phones are, since people already have smartphones. That means that game consoles always face heavy competition from phones and need to stay ahead of them to sell anything at all.
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        > Not handheld consoles. Which is why handheld consoles are not in the same market either. > And you can connect phones to large screens if you want. Neither the user interface nor the input method is designed for this. > Genshin impact and fortninte? They could play the same kind of games, they have weaker hardware so graphics wont be there true but they are still devices people play all kinds of games on. There are kinds of games you can't play on a phone. Phones aren't part of the market for those kinds of games, and you can't get out of that by finding some different games that can run on a phone. > Wasn't the original argument that these things are the same and therefore should be regulated the same? How do you differentiate "gaming console" from other computers? They should be regulated the same because it's the same anti-competitive business practice -- tying app distribution to the platform and preventing third party competitors. Far from contradicting the claim, being separate markets is the entire problem -- instead of having a common market for console games or apps in general where anyone can be a distributor for any platform, each platform is segmented into a separate market with only a single distributor. What makes things be in the same market is the ability to substitute them for one another. If you need a wrench and they're sold at both Amazon and Walmart, you can substitute one store for the other. But if you need a wrench for your Xbox and only Amazon has wrenches that work on an Xbox whereas Walmart only has wrenches that work on PlayStations, you can't get what you need from Walmart anymore so Walmart is out of the market. > People will only buy gaming consoles as long as they are better for gaming than phones are, since people already have smartphones. That means that game consoles always face heavy competition from phones and need to stay ahead of them to sell anything at all. But it's trivial for them to do this because they have different design constraints. A phone runs on battery and has to fit in your pocket, so it can't use or dissipate >100 watts and it's easy to make a console that can which is significantly faster. Then all of the games requiring that level of performance are exclusive to the devices with that level of power consumption.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        > There are kinds of games you can't play on a phone Actually, I'm curious; what are those games? I guess "GTA 5" is an acceptable answer. But if you're satisfied with 2fps, even that should run through Rosetta/Box86 and GPT/Proton. Both modern Android and modern iOS devices should have the API coverage to enable DirectX12 via-translation, even if their hardware isn't particularly amicable to it. You can play Resident Evil 4 natively on an iPhone. You can play Half Life and Fallout: New Vegas locally on Android. It's not really a contradiction of your claim, but I don't think anything really stops iPhones and Android phones from providing PC or console-quality game APIs anymore.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    You're making stuff up. I only have one console because the majority of games outside of Nintendo first party games do not interest me. My cousin has one console because his parents told him he could only get one. My friend only has a PS5 because he does most of his gaming on the computer and wanted a similar experience when he feels like sitting on his couch. My coworker only owns a switch because she grew up wanting to play Mario and Zelda and her parents refused to let her ever get any video or PC games. Not every single person who plays video games is so hardcore about it that they must own the entire generation of consoles.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      You and your friends don't have smartphones? If you don't consider consoles a different kind of device then you shouldn't say you have just one if you have a smartphone as well.
      - FridgeSeal 3y ago
        None of my friends who have PC’s or consoles consider phone (games) a “console” platform worth considering. There’s been no games on phones that have made me consider upgrading or switching. That the phone has games is incidental to its existence, not central.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

There are definitely people who only have one console. Consoles cost money. Some people aren't rich.

Jensson 3y ago
Phones are game consoles, people who only have one game console today have a phone.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Phones are power-constrained devices with small screens. Consoles consume >100 watts under load with correspondingly higher performance and are connected to televisions. These are not the same market. They don't play the same games. Arguably gaming PCs (i.e. fast PCs with a suitable GPU) are in the same market, but this hasn't really added a competitor because Xbox and gaming PCs are both Microsoft, and most people don't have gaming PCs either.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > Consoles consume >100 watts under load with correspondingly higher performance and are connected to televisions Not handheld consoles. And you can connect phones to large screens if you want. > They don't play the same games. Genshin impact and fortninte? They could play the same kind of games, they have weaker hardware so graphics wont be there true but they are still devices people play all kinds of games on. > These are not the same market Why not? Wasn't the original argument that these things are the same and therefore should be regulated the same? How do you differentiate "gaming console" from other computers? People will only buy gaming consoles as long as they are better for gaming than phones are, since people already have smartphones. That means that game consoles always face heavy competition from phones and need to stay ahead of them to sell anything at all.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      > Not handheld consoles. Which is why handheld consoles are not in the same market either. > And you can connect phones to large screens if you want. Neither the user interface nor the input method is designed for this. > Genshin impact and fortninte? They could play the same kind of games, they have weaker hardware so graphics wont be there true but they are still devices people play all kinds of games on. There are kinds of games you can't play on a phone. Phones aren't part of the market for those kinds of games, and you can't get out of that by finding some different games that can run on a phone. > Wasn't the original argument that these things are the same and therefore should be regulated the same? How do you differentiate "gaming console" from other computers? They should be regulated the same because it's the same anti-competitive business practice -- tying app distribution to the platform and preventing third party competitors. Far from contradicting the claim, being separate markets is the entire problem -- instead of having a common market for console games or apps in general where anyone can be a distributor for any platform, each platform is segmented into a separate market with only a single distributor. What makes things be in the same market is the ability to substitute them for one another. If you need a wrench and they're sold at both Amazon and Walmart, you can substitute one store for the other. But if you need a wrench for your Xbox and only Amazon has wrenches that work on an Xbox whereas Walmart only has wrenches that work on PlayStations, you can't get what you need from Walmart anymore so Walmart is out of the market. > People will only buy gaming consoles as long as they are better for gaming than phones are, since people already have smartphones. That means that game consoles always face heavy competition from phones and need to stay ahead of them to sell anything at all. But it's trivial for them to do this because they have different design constraints. A phone runs on battery and has to fit in your pocket, so it can't use or dissipate >100 watts and it's easy to make a console that can which is significantly faster. Then all of the games requiring that level of performance are exclusive to the devices with that level of power consumption.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        > There are kinds of games you can't play on a phone Actually, I'm curious; what are those games? I guess "GTA 5" is an acceptable answer. But if you're satisfied with 2fps, even that should run through Rosetta/Box86 and GPT/Proton. Both modern Android and modern iOS devices should have the API coverage to enable DirectX12 via-translation, even if their hardware isn't particularly amicable to it. You can play Resident Evil 4 natively on an iPhone. You can play Half Life and Fallout: New Vegas locally on Android. It's not really a contradiction of your claim, but I don't think anything really stops iPhones and Android phones from providing PC or console-quality game APIs anymore.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  You're making stuff up. I only have one console because the majority of games outside of Nintendo first party games do not interest me. My cousin has one console because his parents told him he could only get one. My friend only has a PS5 because he does most of his gaming on the computer and wanted a similar experience when he feels like sitting on his couch. My coworker only owns a switch because she grew up wanting to play Mario and Zelda and her parents refused to let her ever get any video or PC games. Not every single person who plays video games is so hardcore about it that they must own the entire generation of consoles.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    You and your friends don't have smartphones? If you don't consider consoles a different kind of device then you shouldn't say you have just one if you have a smartphone as well.
    - FridgeSeal 3y ago
      None of my friends who have PC’s or consoles consider phone (games) a “console” platform worth considering. There’s been no games on phones that have made me consider upgrading or switching. That the phone has games is incidental to its existence, not central.