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>The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" … The irony is to talk about the irony without realising the extreme nature of the phrase “From t

>The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" … The irony is to talk about the irony without realising the extreme nature of the phrase “From the river to the sea…” for any of the sides. Someone can as easily adapt the same phrase for calls to remove non-jewish population from the land yet the commentator felt the urge to see the irony in “banning the phrase” (as he put it) without thinking through the outcome of using such phrase in all of it’s dangerous aspects. >every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0] The linked map is from post on quora [1] which does not state that. To the question : “What borders does Israel show in maps in school textbooks?” It states the following: “ It really depends on the age. TLDR - the books mostly show area international borders with markings for area A, But don’t shy away from the existence of the P.A. In higher grades, they show the evolution of the borders, and the idea that nothing is really fixed or “promised”. Long answer: I’ve made a small check on books available on my Child’s elementary school online website. …” Notice “ elementary school online website.” while commentator states: “ in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall” Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that. Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there. The one for the smallest age and claims “This is a typical map” The real irony though is vivid if one looks at the official logo of PLO here [2] who’s chairman is Mahmoud Abbas. It shows the whole map “from the river to the sea” without any marking for Israel. Commentator criticises Israeli maps for only :“ "Area A" regions are in a different color.” and forgot to mention that PLO does not have any color for Israel in fact. The logo is currently on the official PLO web site. > Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now. The third irony is mentioning “56 years” and forgetting to mention that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 [2] pretty much to the border before 1967. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-in-school-textbooks https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaz...

DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
> Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that. Almost every map in that Quora answer shows Israel extending from the river to the sea, and shows the Palestinian territories as belonging to Israel. > Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there. As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing. There was actually a dispute between the Tel Aviv school system and the national government recently, because Tel Aviv schools wanted to mark the Palestinian territories on school maps, which the national government tried to forbid. It's standard in Israel to depict everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea as part of Israel. > PLO does not have any color for Israel in fact. The logo is currently on the official PLO web site. The PLO recognizes the state of Israel, and has done so for more than 30 years. Israel does not recognize the state of Palestine, and the Israeli government says that it will never allow the creation of a Palestinian state. You're making a big deal about the PLO logo, but it's just a historic logo that hasn't been changed, and it does not reflect the PLO's position. The PLO recognizes Israel and only wants the internationally recognized Palestinian territories.
- lovelyviking 3y ago
  > As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing. I do not know how maps from 1922, 1947,1949, 1967 and 2008 with completely different borders are showing “roughly the same thing” for you. (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-in-school-textbooks https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...) If you refer only to the maps for 2nd and 3rd grades I can assure you that many things in 2nd and 3rd grade appear as “roughly the same thing” and it’s only with further education you begin to notice certain nuances. At this point I believe I should strongly recommend to use maps for more grown up children to make your point. >You're making a big deal about the PLO logo… (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.pn...) The official PLO logo clearly suggests no Israel existence. You’ve brought map to make your point (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727) and now you are suddenly dismissal about the map on official PLO logo and then you’ve tried to portrait me as making “a big deal” about it. Another trick to register and unfortunately such tricks and manipulative efforts are common trends in every supporter of “from the river to the sea” chant that I’ve seen. I wander what purpose they are trying to achieve by misleading others and what they are trying to hide under the “nice” words. You were also completely dismissive about extreme and dangerous nature of the phrase “from the river to the sea” for both sides. You also completely skipped the fact of Israel withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 even after I have pointed to those two main points. I am making a big deal of you making misleading comments and using manipulative techniques to distort the reality and hide the truth to push certain agenda without thinking through the consequences of your actions (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935) and your conscious or unconscious contribution to spreading propaganda beneficial to Hamas which leads to the loss of life on both sides. This is a moral blindness at best and intentional malevolent effort at worst. > There was actually a dispute … It's standard in Israel … Sources and facts are required to support such claims. After your manipulative approach with maps it’s difficult to trust the ‘stories’ you spread. >The PLO recognizes the state of Israel. Their logo doesn’t reflect it. Documents and factually proven persistent behaviour that is in accordance with such claim are required.

DiogenesKynikos 3y ago

> Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that. Almost every map in that Quora answer shows Israel extending from the river to the sea, and shows the Palestinian territories as belonging to Israel. > Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there. As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing. There was actually a dispute between the Tel Aviv school system and the national government recently, because Tel Aviv schools wanted to mark the Palestinian territories on school maps, which the national government tried to forbid. It's standard in Israel to depict everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea as part of Israel. > PLO does not have any color for Israel in fact. The logo is currently on the official PLO web site. The PLO recognizes the state of Israel, and has done so for more than 30 years. Israel does not recognize the state of Palestine, and the Israeli government says that it will never allow the creation of a Palestinian state. You're making a big deal about the PLO logo, but it's just a historic logo that hasn't been changed, and it does not reflect the PLO's position. The PLO recognizes Israel and only wants the internationally recognized Palestinian territories.

lovelyviking 3y ago
> As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing. I do not know how maps from 1922, 1947,1949, 1967 and 2008 with completely different borders are showing “roughly the same thing” for you. (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-in-school-textbooks https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...) If you refer only to the maps for 2nd and 3rd grades I can assure you that many things in 2nd and 3rd grade appear as “roughly the same thing” and it’s only with further education you begin to notice certain nuances. At this point I believe I should strongly recommend to use maps for more grown up children to make your point. >You're making a big deal about the PLO logo… (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.pn...) The official PLO logo clearly suggests no Israel existence. You’ve brought map to make your point (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727) and now you are suddenly dismissal about the map on official PLO logo and then you’ve tried to portrait me as making “a big deal” about it. Another trick to register and unfortunately such tricks and manipulative efforts are common trends in every supporter of “from the river to the sea” chant that I’ve seen. I wander what purpose they are trying to achieve by misleading others and what they are trying to hide under the “nice” words. You were also completely dismissive about extreme and dangerous nature of the phrase “from the river to the sea” for both sides. You also completely skipped the fact of Israel withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 even after I have pointed to those two main points. I am making a big deal of you making misleading comments and using manipulative techniques to distort the reality and hide the truth to push certain agenda without thinking through the consequences of your actions (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935) and your conscious or unconscious contribution to spreading propaganda beneficial to Hamas which leads to the loss of life on both sides. This is a moral blindness at best and intentional malevolent effort at worst. > There was actually a dispute … It's standard in Israel … Sources and facts are required to support such claims. After your manipulative approach with maps it’s difficult to trust the ‘stories’ you spread. >The PLO recognizes the state of Israel. Their logo doesn’t reflect it. Documents and factually proven persistent behaviour that is in accordance with such claim are required.