5 ms·

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree i

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

hokua 14y ago
Totally. In fact, colleges should publish outcome stats -- what percent graduating in degree X got a job in their field within 9 months? And at what median starting salary? Dismal numbers would cause many students to reconsider that Psych degree, or at least realize they are really undertaking a 4 year vacation.
- KaeseEs 14y ago
  Almost all schools do publish these exact statistics broken down by major.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
jforman 14y ago
"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.
- commanda 14y ago
  I declared a double major of dance and creative writing when I entered college. Nobody discouraged me. It was sheer luck that I stumbled across computer science, fell in love, and never looked back. I shudder to think how my life would have turned out if I had stuck with what had originally interested me.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Homunculiheaded 14y ago
  Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions). It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests. If anything I think people get stuck because they don't follow their interests strongly enough.
  - jcdavis 14y ago
    > It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests. Amen. Almost all the programmers I know (myself included) chose it as a career choice primarily because they found it interesting, not because the money was good. It just so turned out that what I (and probably a lot of other people here) wanted to do because they liked it also turns out to be a great career choice. We of all trades are the ones who should definitely not be telling people they need to make the tradeoff between doing something they love and something that will get them a job just because we happen to work in the intersection of both. That I get paid well to do something I love is truly amazing luck, and I (and, it seems, a good portion of the industry) tend to forget that all too often.
  - jforman 14y ago
    I suppose I should clarify: people generally interpret "do what interests you" as "study what you think you will enjoy studying" when they should really be asking themselves what they will enjoy doing as a career. Social anthropology was interesting to study, but at some point I realized that actually embarking on a career as a social anthropologist would have been terrible for me. I like learning about different cultures, not studying a few scientifically. I can do that as an amateur. When I sat down to decide what to do instead, I thought, a) I like making ASP pages for our newspaper, b) you can go into a lot of fields with a CS degree, and c) there is a clear path for making a tangible impact on society. It turns out, that was pretty sound reasoning (despite ASP pages being entirely different from CS): I've worked at Microsoft, in computational biology, and now at a publishing startup. I've never lacked for engagement (except toward the end of my time at MSFT), and the problems I'm able to solve in our economy are a larger part of that than the practice of the discipline itself.
- furyofantares 14y ago
  Did studying social anthropology for a semester hurt you in any way? And when you figured out you weren't really interested in it, how did you decide to pursue CS if it didn't interest you?
  - jforman 14y ago
    a) No, in fact, I benefitted from the semester. I learned interesting things about, for example, the role of gift giving in society and what it means to be a social anthropologist. I don't regret the semester, but I do think I would have regretted a degree. b) I never said CS didn't interest me — that "study what interests you" is bad advice doesn't mean to do the opposite. See my reply above for more explanation and a short description of my thought process.
ShardPhoenix 14y ago
I'd imagine it's a combination of: 1.) Hangover of attitudes from better economic times. 2.) Cultural pressure to be seen to "follow your dreams" rather than directly focus on money.
jballanc 14y ago
I agree on the better guidance, but I don't think steering people away from these degrees is completely correct either. Anthropology, English, and Women's Studies can lead to tremendously rewarding careers (if not monetarily, at least professionally)...but! BUT! YOU WILL NEED AN ADVANCED DEGREE! Honestly, I think a lot of good would be accomplished by simply abolishing Bachelors degrees in subjects like these. You want to enter school to study anthropology? Great. Get ready to work your ass off for the next 8-12 years (and then struggle through the world of post-doc appointments and tenure track for the next 9-15 years after that). Oh, suddenly that doesn't sound so appealing? Well then, lets see what other major you might pick that will give you marketable skills after 4-5 years.
sien 14y ago
Look at all the 'follow your passion' articles that appear on HN. Young folks also take bigger risks, like doing music or art in the hope that they can make it. Add in an education system that rarely considers humility a value and realistic assessment of your skills and that's why people don't have marketable skills. Mind you, there are places like the School of Music near me where for every incoming class they tell them that they won't get a job and most of them will not make it. It's really honest, but on wildly optimistic 18 year olds it doesn't have much impact.
ZephyrP 14y ago
I personally reject the notion that a degree in Anthropology, English or some other nonmarketable major is a bad idea. Doing something that makes a significant impact in any given field, especially considering the sizable advantages of web distribution, is easier now than ever. If you feel the deep passion and need for bringing your ideas into the world, you will be successful. The issue is motivation, you're either working towards doing great work or you aren't. Most people aren't.
- commanda 14y ago
  There's nothing that guarantees success for the passionate. If you are passionate about being a screenplay writer, your talent will be drowned out in the deluge of other passionate and hardworking people also trying to be screenplay writers. For the vast majority of people, that kind of pursuit is better left as a hobby. I think you (and I, and most of us here in HN) should count ourselves lucky that we happen to be passionate about programming. It's a tool that allows us to bring out ideas to life - anything from games to Mars rovers to businesses. People passionate about 19th century Russian literature don't have the luxury that we do because that's not going to earn them a living, no matter how great their passion may be. This "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" notion is a little misguided, IMO. Instead, I'd say the screenplay writer should see if she can get herself to be at least passably comfortable in a marketable field, while leaving the writing for the weekends.

hokua 14y ago

Totally. In fact, colleges should publish outcome stats -- what percent graduating in degree X got a job in their field within 9 months? And at what median starting salary? Dismal numbers would cause many students to reconsider that Psych degree, or at least realize they are really undertaking a 4 year vacation.

KaeseEs 14y ago
Almost all schools do publish these exact statistics broken down by major.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

jforman 14y ago

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

commanda 14y ago
I declared a double major of dance and creative writing when I entered college. Nobody discouraged me. It was sheer luck that I stumbled across computer science, fell in love, and never looked back. I shudder to think how my life would have turned out if I had stuck with what had originally interested me.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Homunculiheaded 14y ago
Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions). It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests. If anything I think people get stuck because they don't follow their interests strongly enough.
- jcdavis 14y ago
  > It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests. Amen. Almost all the programmers I know (myself included) chose it as a career choice primarily because they found it interesting, not because the money was good. It just so turned out that what I (and probably a lot of other people here) wanted to do because they liked it also turns out to be a great career choice. We of all trades are the ones who should definitely not be telling people they need to make the tradeoff between doing something they love and something that will get them a job just because we happen to work in the intersection of both. That I get paid well to do something I love is truly amazing luck, and I (and, it seems, a good portion of the industry) tend to forget that all too often.
- jforman 14y ago
  I suppose I should clarify: people generally interpret "do what interests you" as "study what you think you will enjoy studying" when they should really be asking themselves what they will enjoy doing as a career. Social anthropology was interesting to study, but at some point I realized that actually embarking on a career as a social anthropologist would have been terrible for me. I like learning about different cultures, not studying a few scientifically. I can do that as an amateur. When I sat down to decide what to do instead, I thought, a) I like making ASP pages for our newspaper, b) you can go into a lot of fields with a CS degree, and c) there is a clear path for making a tangible impact on society. It turns out, that was pretty sound reasoning (despite ASP pages being entirely different from CS): I've worked at Microsoft, in computational biology, and now at a publishing startup. I've never lacked for engagement (except toward the end of my time at MSFT), and the problems I'm able to solve in our economy are a larger part of that than the practice of the discipline itself.
furyofantares 14y ago
Did studying social anthropology for a semester hurt you in any way? And when you figured out you weren't really interested in it, how did you decide to pursue CS if it didn't interest you?
- jforman 14y ago
  a) No, in fact, I benefitted from the semester. I learned interesting things about, for example, the role of gift giving in society and what it means to be a social anthropologist. I don't regret the semester, but I do think I would have regretted a degree. b) I never said CS didn't interest me — that "study what interests you" is bad advice doesn't mean to do the opposite. See my reply above for more explanation and a short description of my thought process.

ShardPhoenix 14y ago

I'd imagine it's a combination of: 1.) Hangover of attitudes from better economic times. 2.) Cultural pressure to be seen to "follow your dreams" rather than directly focus on money.

jballanc 14y ago

I agree on the better guidance, but I don't think steering people away from these degrees is completely correct either. Anthropology, English, and Women's Studies can lead to tremendously rewarding careers (if not monetarily, at least professionally)...but! BUT! YOU WILL NEED AN ADVANCED DEGREE! Honestly, I think a lot of good would be accomplished by simply abolishing Bachelors degrees in subjects like these. You want to enter school to study anthropology? Great. Get ready to work your ass off for the next 8-12 years (and then struggle through the world of post-doc appointments and tenure track for the next 9-15 years after that). Oh, suddenly that doesn't sound so appealing? Well then, lets see what other major you might pick that will give you marketable skills after 4-5 years.

sien 14y ago

Look at all the 'follow your passion' articles that appear on HN. Young folks also take bigger risks, like doing music or art in the hope that they can make it. Add in an education system that rarely considers humility a value and realistic assessment of your skills and that's why people don't have marketable skills. Mind you, there are places like the School of Music near me where for every incoming class they tell them that they won't get a job and most of them will not make it. It's really honest, but on wildly optimistic 18 year olds it doesn't have much impact.

ZephyrP 14y ago

I personally reject the notion that a degree in Anthropology, English or some other nonmarketable major is a bad idea. Doing something that makes a significant impact in any given field, especially considering the sizable advantages of web distribution, is easier now than ever. If you feel the deep passion and need for bringing your ideas into the world, you will be successful. The issue is motivation, you're either working towards doing great work or you aren't. Most people aren't.

commanda 14y ago
There's nothing that guarantees success for the passionate. If you are passionate about being a screenplay writer, your talent will be drowned out in the deluge of other passionate and hardworking people also trying to be screenplay writers. For the vast majority of people, that kind of pursuit is better left as a hobby. I think you (and I, and most of us here in HN) should count ourselves lucky that we happen to be passionate about programming. It's a tool that allows us to bring out ideas to life - anything from games to Mars rovers to businesses. People passionate about 19th century Russian literature don't have the luxury that we do because that's not going to earn them a living, no matter how great their passion may be. This "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" notion is a little misguided, IMO. Instead, I'd say the screenplay writer should see if she can get herself to be at least passably comfortable in a marketable field, while leaving the writing for the weekends.