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Adobe & HTML
- tommi 14y agoSad how the samples don't have any working fallback but break hideously on Chrome 19.
- Zr40 14y agoThey're working fine for me in Chrome 18 and Webkit nightly, though not in Safari 5.1.5.
- tommi 14y agoYes, but are you using the experimental --enable-css-regions switch?
- ryannielsen 14y agoIf it's experimental, I don't think either Adobe or Google can be blamed for the fact they don't work. Naturally the css doesn't degrade – the browser is advertising support for a feature that's currently broken in the browser and thus disabled by default.
- tommi 14y agoI was asking if the parent was using the experimental feature and wondering if it worked for him because of it. I am not using the experimental feature. Of course samples are only samples, but they would be better if they showed a real life scenario where you have to make it work for the current generation of browsers and the upcoming generation. You don't have to degrade it with CSS, just make it work somehow.
- RossM 14y agoOn the Tools and Services page, this piqued my interest: > Code > We think there’s a need for a different type of code editor – we’re working on something and will have more to share soon.
- bonjourmr 14y agoBut what's wrong with Dreamweaver? /s
- artursapek 14y agoJoking aside, Dreamweaver got me into HTML and CSS six years ago when I was 13 and now I have a pretty awesome job developing. Like pdenya states, it's definitely not for power users. But it has its place.
- bonjourmr 14y agoI do agree with you and was definitely was in the same boat. Dreamweaver actually functions pretty well for a starter/basic FTP and code editor, but beyond that it's very, very outdated and needs a massive overhaul.
- baddox 14y agoYears ago, when CSS layouts were the new thing and hadn't quite been figured out yet, I used Dreamweaver's code editor and WYSIWYG view to teach myself the basics of CSS layouts. This was before I knew how to "program," and I'm sure there are better ways to learn, but it was an effortless way to get instant code-output feedback which really helped at the time and probably helped in my foray into programming.
- pdenya 14y agoSame, but I've never used an adobe product thats fast, responsive, and made for power users. I don't want another editor that's trying to hold my hand like dreamweaver.
- prawn 14y agoNot originally Adobe, but Homesite? Bit embarrassing, but I actually still use Allaire's Cold Fusion Studio from 1999. I think that was, at the time, the big brother to Homesite.
- james4k 14y agoWow! At first I thought Adobe had jumped into the browser market. That would be interesting.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y agoThey might. They have been contributing to WebKit.
- sparknlaunch12 14y agoThey lost on flash. Will they lose on html and CSS?
- artursapek 14y ago"If you can't improve them with your own plugin, join them."
- qxcv 14y agoThey did not "lose" on Flash. 99% market penetration[0] is not losing. I doubt they'll "lose" on HTML and CSS any more than they lost on Dreamweaver, they'll simply pull an Autodesk[1] and target the education and training market. It's hard to beat the Flash IDE for ease-of-use, and I imagine their new HTML-based product(s) will be the same. [0]: https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplatformruntimes/statistics.html https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplatformruntimes/statist... [1]: http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=download_center http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=download_center
- lloeki 14y ago> 99% market penetration By that metric, Java has 73%, but I basically never encounter a Java applet on the web (except when digitally signing my taxes) and increasingly hardly any Flash.
- sparknlaunch12 14y agoOh, wasn't aware flash is now supported on apple products. My comments were referring to the shift away from flash. Penetration in a constricting market is not ideal.
- coob 14y ago99% market penetration is a bullshit statistic, it completely ignores mobile which is the fastest growing method for accessing the web.
- rimantas 14y ago> 99% market penetration[0] is not losing. Let's talk about trends: what is the outlook for web browsing on smartphones and tablets? How big part of these support Flash? What part of those supporting flash actually have it enabled? IE had 98% marketshare once too…
- chris_wot 14y agoDoesn't this work on Firefox? It has Canary, IE10 developer preview, Chrome and Webkit builds... no Mozilla!
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y agoGecko seems to be behind on a lot of things lately... it took until FF11 for them to support the loop attribute on audio tags(!)
- dcurtis 14y agoIf you're not a designer, it might be hard to see, but the importance of this work is impossible to overstate. In 10 years, we'll look back on today and think about how barbaric and stupid it was that we didn't have re-flowable text in multi-box CSS layouts or absolute control of typefaces on the web. I have come upon the edge of what CSS is capable of multiple times, especially when building http://dustincurtis.com http://dustincurtis.com, and what happened surprised me: after a while, I noticed that I had started to subconsciously alter my designs to fit within the limitations of the display technology. As I realized that the only sane way to build the layouts was to absolutely/manually position every paragraph, I slowly stopped writing and designing the articles. It was just too much work because the tools to do great custom layouts on the web just don't exist. Compared to what should be possible by now, CSS is pretty primitive. It's a limiting factor in the digitization of traditional media, like magazines. What Adobe is doing here is awesome, and I commend them for pushing forward the status quo.
- kirillzubovsky 14y agoI am with Dustin on this one, but from a different angle. By creating flowable text, Adobe will ridiculously enhance the usefulness of their current publishing tools. A few years back I dabbled into newspaper publishing, and you can't imagine just how frustrating it is to have a beautiful layout in InDesign, which isn't really portable to the web. Having these tools will allow 'normal' people who don't do web to easily create stunning experience; that is a big undertaking!
- DanBC 14y ago> to easily create stunning experience I know that I've lost this battle and that I'm in a minority, but to me "stunning experience" comes from the content, and not the presentation.
- kirillzubovsky 14y agoPresentation without content isn't much, but content without presentation isn't either. When you are competing for users' attention, having an option to present the content in a memorable and outspoken way is quite important. It's much like code, no one cares what your backend looks like, if users can't work with your apps.
- haberman 14y agoI'm very cross with Adobe for forcing me to install Adobe Reader today. Makes it hard for me to have any interest in their new ideas. https://plus.google.com/108917965951523281393/posts/MJqS8pF71kH https://plus.google.com/108917965951523281393/posts/MJqS8pF7...
- aw3c2 14y agoReply to the sender that this is not acceptable.
- salmanapk 14y agoAlready seen few sites abusing CSS Regions and making paragraphs harder to read. PLEASE use them wisely.
- marathe 14y agoAnyone else noticed that this move comes a week shy of the two-year anniversary of Steve Jobs's infamous open letter? (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/) "New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind." Write-up here: http://webdev360.com/adobe-lays-cards-on-table-with-standards-focused-portal-42104.html http://webdev360.com/adobe-lays-cards-on-table-with-standard...
- donteflon 14y agoLet's leave the Steve Jobs PR bullshit out of this. When it comes to Web Standards, Adobe was on the bandwagon before Apple even knew such a thing existed. For example, before any browser had support for SVG, Adobe Illustrator could export SVGs, and Adobe wrote and distributed for free a plugin that made SVG available in all the major browsers (IE, Mozilla, Opera and Safari). After it acquired Macromedia, Adobe finished and made open source the first VM with a JIT for ECMA script and donated it to Mozilla, it also licensed Opera's HTML/CSS rendering engine (by far the most standards compliant at the time, KHTML/WebKit was not around) and put it into Dreamweaver. Most of Adobe's products use JavaScript as the default scripting engine since a long long time ago (close to a decade by now), and it goes on, and on. Yet in the Steve Jobs distortion field, it's actually good ol' Apple who are twisting Adobe's hand to join the Web Standards movement. Hilarious, especially since it's the same Apple who had for years an obsolete, nonconforming, slow browser that was dead last in performance and implementation of Web Standards, so much so that Zeldman, in his "Designing with Web Standards" recommends IE 5 for Mac over Safari. Imagine that, for years (until Apple forked KHTML and KJS from KDE), the best browser running on Macs was made by Microsoft.
- mturmon 14y agoI don't seen the point of the venom in your reply. In fact, the Jobs letter that the grandfather comment mentions, recognized Adobe's historical contributions to publishing and graphics. Here are its first sentences: "Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times." You may disagree with Jobs' conclusions, or dislike Apple for various reasons, but the letter shows considerable insight.
- thirdsun 14y agoI hope this will be relevant for Adobe's Digital Magazine Distribution Suite - I'm really tired of waiting for new New Yorker issues to download on my ancient 1 MBit connection (rural area in germany). There's no need to provide text as a bunch of huge images resulting in several 100 MBytes in size.
- crazygringo 14y agoThis may be off-topic, but progress with CSS (flowable text, etc.) is not only glacially slow, but we're still stuck with the terribly-designed CSS standard. I find myself wishing for some kind of "layout bytecode" -- basically, machine-readable instructions which would size every element in a browser's page using custom layout algorithms that would depend on the size of the page and the size of font glyphs. CSS would be compiled into this bytecode, but we'd be open to inventing new and better style languages which could be compiled as well. So we could create layout languages based on columns instead of floats, for example. If this were actually implemented in newer browsers, it could actually be emulated in older browsers using JS libraries (although it would be much slower). Note that this really only has to do with the layout properties of CSS. Things like color, rounded corners, drop shadows -- all that would still be implemented traditionally, but these aren't generally what people have problems with. It's the terrible layout algorithms of CSS which generate endless headaches.
- alexchamberlain 14y agoAnybody got a useful example of reflowable text? On my large screen, a lot the boxes are just empty.
- cfqycwz 14y agoI'd suggest resizing the window.
- alexchamberlain 14y agoI did to see the example work, but my point was that by default this gives a bad UX.