3 ms·

That would be the obvious solution, but it’s not surprising they couldn’t agree on a price when they operate in very different industries. Masimo makes medical

That would be the obvious solution, but it’s not surprising they couldn’t agree on a price when they operate in very different industries. Masimo makes medical devices, ones whose prices are probably both high and skewed by insurance. Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Another possibility is that Apple’s watches may be an alternative to Masimo’s expensive, high-margin devices, so a licensing deal could destroy Masimo’s entire business in the long run. So, coming to an agreement on price may have been impossible.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
If Apple could destroy this company's business, it's a good thing they have a patent preventing that.
devsda 3y ago
> Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Do we know the total BOM cost plus the amortized cost of development & other expenses for an Apple watch ? While I don't think one patent holder should get a major share of the available margins, I find it hard to believe that margins for Apple on smart watches are anywhere close to "thin".
devilbunny 3y ago
Apple isn’t going to go into medical devices that are certified for diagnostic use unless they’re nuts. There’s a lot of money there, but it’s hard to get and way outside their core businesses. That $8 pulse oximeter from aliexpress is better than nothing, but it’s a long way from what Masimo or Medtronic (Nellcor) sell. And the prices for oximeters aren’t really affected by insurance, as individuals almost never get them at diagnostic grade. They’re durable, have screens that convey more than just a number, electrically isolated from the patient… there’s a lot going on there that is not, at first glance, obvious to the layman. (I’m an anesthesiologist; pulse oximetry with a good waveform display is a critical monitor for us. I would rather have a good pulse ox than any other non-invasive monitor, if I could only have one.)
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  This such an interesting thread. Thanks for the info.
- bdowling 3y ago
  This is great info. As a follow-up, it looks like Masimo is trying to make a consumer watch-like device (or possibly just pretending to so they look like a competitor to Apple). https://www.masimopersonalhealth.com/ https://www.masimopersonalhealth.com/
hasty_pudding 3y ago
Thanks, good points

pclmulqdq 3y ago

If Apple could destroy this company's business, it's a good thing they have a patent preventing that.

devsda 3y ago

> Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Do we know the total BOM cost plus the amortized cost of development & other expenses for an Apple watch ? While I don't think one patent holder should get a major share of the available margins, I find it hard to believe that margins for Apple on smart watches are anywhere close to "thin".

devilbunny 3y ago

Apple isn’t going to go into medical devices that are certified for diagnostic use unless they’re nuts. There’s a lot of money there, but it’s hard to get and way outside their core businesses. That $8 pulse oximeter from aliexpress is better than nothing, but it’s a long way from what Masimo or Medtronic (Nellcor) sell. And the prices for oximeters aren’t really affected by insurance, as individuals almost never get them at diagnostic grade. They’re durable, have screens that convey more than just a number, electrically isolated from the patient… there’s a lot going on there that is not, at first glance, obvious to the layman. (I’m an anesthesiologist; pulse oximetry with a good waveform display is a critical monitor for us. I would rather have a good pulse ox than any other non-invasive monitor, if I could only have one.)

hasty_pudding 3y ago
This such an interesting thread. Thanks for the info.
bdowling 3y ago
This is great info. As a follow-up, it looks like Masimo is trying to make a consumer watch-like device (or possibly just pretending to so they look like a competitor to Apple). https://www.masimopersonalhealth.com/ https://www.masimopersonalhealth.com/

hasty_pudding 3y ago

Thanks, good points