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I actually had to fire a guy once who was working another job while working for me. I didn't do it because he was working two jobs; I did it because he was fall

I actually had to fire a guy once who was working another job while working for me. I didn't do it because he was working two jobs; I did it because he was falling behind and being dishonest about why. While I don't think I'm evolved enough to be totally okay with knowing someone has a second full-time job... if someone working for me is delivering the goods and nice to work with and I don't have any idea, in the abstract I think I don't have a problem with it. I am hiring for results, not keeping a chair warm. Honestly, I usually do 90% of the most important creative work for a given week in a few hours. Always in a concentrated burst that I can't predict ahead of time. Allowing my brain to stop feeling guilty for that is likely going to be a life-long challenge, but it doesn't change the reality of it.

justinclift 3y ago
> evolved enough to be totally okay Why would an "evolved" person be ok with it?
- peteforde 3y ago
  Word choice is hard. I know that people who succeed in non-monogamous romantic relationships often need to do a lot of work to get to the point where they are happy when their loved ones are happy, instead of eaten alive by jealousy. I'm just saying that I haven't yet fully matured in my own development such that I would be totally fine with my FTEs having other full-time engagements, even if they were completely transparent about it. Even though I believe that someone doing a great job has fulfilled their obligation to me. I should have no more say over what they do when they aren't working on my stuff than I do over who they choose to be with in their family life. I am also saying that if someone can be my best employee without me knowing that they have a whole second full-time job, I respect their game and hope that they are taking some time off for themselves, too. I just kind of don't want to hear about it. ;)
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Hmmm, if someone has another "full time" job then they're being dishonest with you and should be treated as such. Rewarding dishonesty doesn't seem like a wise plan. --- Not sure why you're equating romantic relationships to the workplace, as they're completely separate domains with no cross over of "monogamous" with "full time employment". Hopefully no-ones been playing with your head to make you think otherwise. :/
    - peteforde 3y ago
      Hey, you're welcome to your thoughts and opinions but, well, you asked. I was trying to give you a different mental model to help visualize why I said what I said. If you can't or won't acknowledge the conceptual similarity between monogamy and full time employment, knowing that I'm explicitly not speaking literally... then I'm probably not the business mentor that you're looking for.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        > the conceptual similarity between monogamy and full time employment They'd only be similar if you don't understand what makes non-monogamy dangerous unless both partners are getting satisfaction from multiple sources. If both partners are, then the whole jealousy concern you mention doesn't become a thing (baring mental issues). As employment (full time or otherwise) doesn't have drivers that work anything like that, there's not enough similarity to really apply lessons from the romantic domain to it. Well, maybe at a really high abstraction level somehow... :) > I'm probably not the business mentor that you're looking for. Thanks, I'm really not looking. ;)
moonshinefe 3y ago
How did you ultimately find them out?
- peteforde 3y ago
  It's been a lot of years, but if memory serves, they got sloppy. I think that maybe they were making GitHub commits, or using an unexpected email account. Although, the more I think about it, I actually remember that their other boss might have figured it out and tipped me off as a professional courtesy, because he was pissed off at the guy. That's the thing: if you're going to have two jobs (or two families) don't also be delusional about your ability to do even one of those jobs well, much less two. It's like they forgot that in order to keep the scam going, you have to not also suck at development.
heckraiser 3y ago
> I am hiring for results, not keeping a chair warm. That I think is the point the critics miss. Integrity is essential, yet sometimes the most fulfilling relationships take on their own unconventional forms.

justinclift 3y ago

> evolved enough to be totally okay Why would an "evolved" person be ok with it?

peteforde 3y ago
Word choice is hard. I know that people who succeed in non-monogamous romantic relationships often need to do a lot of work to get to the point where they are happy when their loved ones are happy, instead of eaten alive by jealousy. I'm just saying that I haven't yet fully matured in my own development such that I would be totally fine with my FTEs having other full-time engagements, even if they were completely transparent about it. Even though I believe that someone doing a great job has fulfilled their obligation to me. I should have no more say over what they do when they aren't working on my stuff than I do over who they choose to be with in their family life. I am also saying that if someone can be my best employee without me knowing that they have a whole second full-time job, I respect their game and hope that they are taking some time off for themselves, too. I just kind of don't want to hear about it. ;)
- justinclift 3y ago
  Hmmm, if someone has another "full time" job then they're being dishonest with you and should be treated as such. Rewarding dishonesty doesn't seem like a wise plan. --- Not sure why you're equating romantic relationships to the workplace, as they're completely separate domains with no cross over of "monogamous" with "full time employment". Hopefully no-ones been playing with your head to make you think otherwise. :/
  - peteforde 3y ago
    Hey, you're welcome to your thoughts and opinions but, well, you asked. I was trying to give you a different mental model to help visualize why I said what I said. If you can't or won't acknowledge the conceptual similarity between monogamy and full time employment, knowing that I'm explicitly not speaking literally... then I'm probably not the business mentor that you're looking for.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > the conceptual similarity between monogamy and full time employment They'd only be similar if you don't understand what makes non-monogamy dangerous unless both partners are getting satisfaction from multiple sources. If both partners are, then the whole jealousy concern you mention doesn't become a thing (baring mental issues). As employment (full time or otherwise) doesn't have drivers that work anything like that, there's not enough similarity to really apply lessons from the romantic domain to it. Well, maybe at a really high abstraction level somehow... :) > I'm probably not the business mentor that you're looking for. Thanks, I'm really not looking. ;)

moonshinefe 3y ago

How did you ultimately find them out?

peteforde 3y ago
It's been a lot of years, but if memory serves, they got sloppy. I think that maybe they were making GitHub commits, or using an unexpected email account. Although, the more I think about it, I actually remember that their other boss might have figured it out and tipped me off as a professional courtesy, because he was pissed off at the guy. That's the thing: if you're going to have two jobs (or two families) don't also be delusional about your ability to do even one of those jobs well, much less two. It's like they forgot that in order to keep the scam going, you have to not also suck at development.

heckraiser 3y ago

> I am hiring for results, not keeping a chair warm. That I think is the point the critics miss. Integrity is essential, yet sometimes the most fulfilling relationships take on their own unconventional forms.