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Emissions shift with manufacturing. And for Western countries that means outsourcing to China.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
So much this. Is there anywhere where we can see emissions by what is consumed rather than what is produced? It's pure politics to outsource everything to China and India then complain that they're the biggest culprits.
- iamthemonster 3y ago
  It's easy to google this data, see Figure 1 on this link, from official UK statistics: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uks-carbon-footprint/carbon-footprint-for-the-uk-and-england-to-2019 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uks-carbon-footprin...
  - varispeed 3y ago
    [flagged]
- midasuni 3y ago
  It is mentioned in the article and they include figures. I’m not convinced by the reliability of those figures, given the carbon intensity of the imports (from a higher carbon grid in China and from the transport) Other sources put U.K. imports at 30% of total energy use, but you need to include the environmental impact too. Better to import 100MWh of goods from Iceland or Norway than 10MWh from China or India.
- verve_rat 3y ago
  The narrative that manufacturing was outsourced to China and India and those same were then blamed for carbon emissions removes agency from China and India. If they want manufacturing industry, then they should acknowledge the externalities that come with that.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    But we want the things they manufacture. I'm arguing for sharing the agency, not putting it all on the UK and others. The climate doesn't care about borders. There's a global demand for manufacturing, we just don't want it in our own backyards.
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > Is there anywhere where we can see emissions by what is consumed rather than what is produced? https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2
midasuni 3y ago
They do address that and mention consumption, and the U.K. is down 32% including import, second to Italy.
- mpweiher 3y ago
  Recessions help with emissions. Like in Germany.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    This is a long term trend
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
In general, this isn't as big a difference as many claim. On the other hand, the UK is probably an outlier in this regard and exhibits one of the largest such effects, so the reduction given as 50% in the article is more like 35% once imports are accounted for. Some comparitive graphs in this article: https://ourworldindata.org/co2-gdp-decoupling https://ourworldindata.org/co2-gdp-decoupling
throw0101b 3y ago
> Emissions shift with manufacturing. And for Western countries that means outsourcing to China. Consumption-based emissions are also down for the UK from a peak of 750 Mt down to 500 Mt: * https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2
_3u10 3y ago
Chinese people get paid a lot less so they have a much smaller carbon footprint. It’s an environmental and economic win-win situation.

So much this. Is there anywhere where we can see emissions by what is consumed rather than what is produced? It's pure politics to outsource everything to China and India then complain that they're the biggest culprits.

iamthemonster 3y ago
It's easy to google this data, see Figure 1 on this link, from official UK statistics: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uks-carbon-footprint/carbon-footprint-for-the-uk-and-england-to-2019 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uks-carbon-footprin...
- varispeed 3y ago
  [flagged]
midasuni 3y ago
It is mentioned in the article and they include figures. I’m not convinced by the reliability of those figures, given the carbon intensity of the imports (from a higher carbon grid in China and from the transport) Other sources put U.K. imports at 30% of total energy use, but you need to include the environmental impact too. Better to import 100MWh of goods from Iceland or Norway than 10MWh from China or India.
verve_rat 3y ago
The narrative that manufacturing was outsourced to China and India and those same were then blamed for carbon emissions removes agency from China and India. If they want manufacturing industry, then they should acknowledge the externalities that come with that.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  But we want the things they manufacture. I'm arguing for sharing the agency, not putting it all on the UK and others. The climate doesn't care about borders. There's a global demand for manufacturing, we just don't want it in our own backyards.
throw0101b 3y ago
> Is there anywhere where we can see emissions by what is consumed rather than what is produced? https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

midasuni 3y ago

They do address that and mention consumption, and the U.K. is down 32% including import, second to Italy.

mpweiher 3y ago
Recessions help with emissions. Like in Germany.
- midasuni 3y ago
  This is a long term trend

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

In general, this isn't as big a difference as many claim. On the other hand, the UK is probably an outlier in this regard and exhibits one of the largest such effects, so the reduction given as 50% in the article is more like 35% once imports are accounted for. Some comparitive graphs in this article: https://ourworldindata.org/co2-gdp-decoupling https://ourworldindata.org/co2-gdp-decoupling

throw0101b 3y ago

> Emissions shift with manufacturing. And for Western countries that means outsourcing to China. Consumption-based emissions are also down for the UK from a peak of 750 Mt down to 500 Mt: * https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

_3u10 3y ago

Chinese people get paid a lot less so they have a much smaller carbon footprint. It’s an environmental and economic win-win situation.