4 ms·

> That's not how it would work The wholesale electricity price on the Australian NEM, which covers 9 million dwellings goes negative basically every day, there

> That's not how it would work The wholesale electricity price on the Australian NEM, which covers 9 million dwellings goes negative basically every day, there's 11 million dwellings in the entire country. You can see the price in the bottom graph here: https://opennem.org.au/energy/nem/?range=7d&interval=30m&view=discrete-time https://opennem.org.au/energy/nem/?range=7d&interval=30m&vie...

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Talk about taking a quote out of context. The full sentence was: > That's not how it would work, and folks are extrapolating the current situation, with very limited energy storage, to a future where storage will be essential. Again, right now in Australia, grid-scale storage is extremely limited (which is excellently highlighted in your link in one of the tables under "loads", at only .9%). Power prices go negative because on the grid generation always needs to be matched with demand, and there basically isn't a place to "put" excess generation. I'm addition, while I'm not familiar with the specifics in Australia, many places have government subsidies that can make renewable generation profitable even when prices go negative. Here are 2 articles, on Texas and Germany, explaining how and why prices go negative, and it's basically always due to a lack of storage and government subsidies: https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-prices-in-the-texas-electricity-market/ https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-pr... https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/why-power-prices-turn-negative https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/why-power-prices-...
- limpanz 3y ago
  As someone working in these markets, it can also be negative because most residential solar power isn't that easy to turn off / the owners don't react to the price signal.

4 ms·

> That's not how it would work The wholesale electricity price on the Australian NEM, which covers 9 million dwellings goes negative basically every day, there

by Grimburger 3y ago

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Talk about taking a quote out of context. The full sentence was: > That's not how it would work, and folks are extrapolating the current situation, with very limited energy storage, to a future where storage will be essential. Again, right now in Australia, grid-scale storage is extremely limited (which is excellently highlighted in your link in one of the tables under "loads", at only .9%). Power prices go negative because on the grid generation always needs to be matched with demand, and there basically isn't a place to "put" excess generation. I'm addition, while I'm not familiar with the specifics in Australia, many places have government subsidies that can make renewable generation profitable even when prices go negative. Here are 2 articles, on Texas and Germany, explaining how and why prices go negative, and it's basically always due to a lack of storage and government subsidies: https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-prices-in-the-texas-electricity-market/ https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-pr... https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/why-power-prices-turn-negative https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/why-power-prices-...
- limpanz 3y ago
  As someone working in these markets, it can also be negative because most residential solar power isn't that easy to turn off / the owners don't react to the price signal.