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>given the abundant opportunities for plagiarism that existed before. We cannot blame stuff for things people do. You can use a knife to cut your dinner or you

>given the abundant opportunities for plagiarism that existed before. We cannot blame stuff for things people do. You can use a knife to cut your dinner or you can use it to kill someone. The knife and the knife maker are not to blame for your wrong doings. You can choose to lie or not. Don't blame ChatGPT if it is misused by someone. Don't blame Adobe if Photoshop is misused by someone.

mcmoor 3y ago
Interestingly now there are many people who do blame them, like the discourse with gun. It seems like ease of use and scalability really changes the nature of the discussion.
- happyraul 3y ago
  I think it's fair to consider what the tool is designed to do as well. Generative AI is capable of distorting reality, but I would argue that it is not the primary purpose of the tool. Likewise, knives can be used to kill, but for the most part they are tools made for cutting, not killing. On the other hand, I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, and for some guns such as hand guns, for killing people.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - DeathArrow 3y ago
    >I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, You can use guns for target shooting, you can use guns as a detterent when your life is in danger, you can use guns for hunting.
    - beretguy 3y ago
      > you can use guns as a detterent when your life is in danger That’s also the same argument countries use for nuclear weapons.
      - Aicy 3y ago
        And its been an effective argument, with no nuclear powers ever fighting a war vs each other.
        beretguy 3y ago
        No, but it allows countries with nuclear weapons to invade countries without nuclear weapons.
        MeImCounting 3y ago
        Those countries would have been able to invade those other countries regardless no?
      - MeImCounting 3y ago
        I dont think thats the gotcha you think it is.
        beretguy 3y ago
        It was more of a sidenote.
    - cutemonster 3y ago
      Never saw anyone hunt deers using handguns or assault rifles Target shooting? No absolute need for real guns Self defence -- if someone is threatening you with a gun or knife, are you going to try to draw faster?
      - MeImCounting 3y ago
        You probably havent seen many hunters then. Many people use AR-10s for deer hunting around where I live. Which would probably count as an "assault rifle" to you. What else would you use for target shooting? Yes.
        cutemonster 3y ago
        Haven't done any hunting, didn't know AR-10 can be useful for that What else for target shooting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon_rifle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon_rifle
      - RecycledEle 3y ago
        > Never saw anyone hunt deers using handguns or assault rifles I assume you have never been hunting. Thompson Center makes the Contender handgun specifically for hunting. Every hunter should carry a handgun for self defense if the critters do not cooperate and fall over quickly. Hog hunts can get dicey even if you are experienced and prepared. AR-type rifles are favorites for hunting, but not usually in .223. And of course the reason for an armed and trained population has nothing to do with hunting. It's about stopping predators who prey on good people.
        cutemonster 3y ago
        Didn't know people use AR rifles for hunting. You're right I don't know much about hunting, or angry hogs and handguns. > stopping predators who prey on good people (You're in the US or somewhere else?)
        defrost 3y ago
    - thwarted 3y ago
      >I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, You can use guns for target shooting, you can use guns as a detterent [sic] when your life is in danger, you can use guns for hunting. Of these three things you listed, two of them are killing. A gun wouldn't be useful as a deterrent if the threat of its application wasn't present—you can't brandish a feather and get the same effect because a feather offers no threat and does not have a reputation of lethal harm. And hunting is literally killing, although it may have a legit purpose, such as sustenance.
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      The question should be: What is the purpose of killing? There are good people who want to be left alone and there are predators. Predators can do a lot of damage over time. I want the good people to stop the predators. In an ideal world, the predators would die the first time they tried to prey on the innocent. That is the purpose of the killing: to stop predators who prey on good people.
  - _puk 3y ago
    "The gun is the tool, the mind is the weapon" [0] 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Don%27t_Kill_People,_Rappers_Do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Don%27t_Kill_People,_Ra...
  - herval 3y ago
    > Generative AI is capable of distorting reality, but I would argue that it is not the primary purpose of the tool What is its primary purpose?
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      The primary purposes of generative AI are to educate humans and to enhance the productivity of humans.
      - herval 3y ago
        what
        RecycledEle 3y ago
        > what The primary purposes of generative AI are to educate humans and to enhance the productivity of humans.
jstummbillig 3y ago
The often proposed case against ChatGPT is that everything it produces is illegitimate, no matter how you use it. It would not be the knife in this analogy, it would be the murder.
totetsu 3y ago
It’s an analogy that misses the point entirely. To make Chatgpt openai had to use a data set that included the results of lots of people work. Many people write as labor. It’s their most valuable asset. They didn’t ever get asked if they’d like to let the output of their labour be used to make a writing machine. A machine that transfers the value of their asset to Openai. Also an individual can make moral choices about how to apply their labor. A machine cannot. So it is theft of economic and moral power.
beretguy 3y ago
> We cannot blame stuff for things people do. While I cannot argue that this statement is wrong it does make me wish some things would never have been invented in the first place because of how much harm they can cause and the fact that there will always be a huge chunk of population who will surely abuse those things for bad. Such as nuclear weapons, AI, etc. Sometimes I even wish internet wouldn’t exist so that we could continue living simpler lives.
zamfi 3y ago
> Don't blame ChatGPT if it is misused by someone. I was very careful not to. I’m merely pointing out that availability matters. People’s actions sit in all sorts of levels of gray. Of course it’s up to the person, but that doesn’t mean access/opportunity/circumstance don’t matter.

mcmoor 3y ago

Interestingly now there are many people who do blame them, like the discourse with gun. It seems like ease of use and scalability really changes the nature of the discussion.

happyraul 3y ago
I think it's fair to consider what the tool is designed to do as well. Generative AI is capable of distorting reality, but I would argue that it is not the primary purpose of the tool. Likewise, knives can be used to kill, but for the most part they are tools made for cutting, not killing. On the other hand, I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, and for some guns such as hand guns, for killing people.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- DeathArrow 3y ago
  >I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, You can use guns for target shooting, you can use guns as a detterent when your life is in danger, you can use guns for hunting.
  - beretguy 3y ago
    > you can use guns as a detterent when your life is in danger That’s also the same argument countries use for nuclear weapons.
    - Aicy 3y ago
      And its been an effective argument, with no nuclear powers ever fighting a war vs each other.
      - beretguy 3y ago
        No, but it allows countries with nuclear weapons to invade countries without nuclear weapons.
        MeImCounting 3y ago
        Those countries would have been able to invade those other countries regardless no?
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      I dont think thats the gotcha you think it is.
      - beretguy 3y ago
        It was more of a sidenote.
  - cutemonster 3y ago
    Never saw anyone hunt deers using handguns or assault rifles Target shooting? No absolute need for real guns Self defence -- if someone is threatening you with a gun or knife, are you going to try to draw faster?
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      You probably havent seen many hunters then. Many people use AR-10s for deer hunting around where I live. Which would probably count as an "assault rifle" to you. What else would you use for target shooting? Yes.
      - cutemonster 3y ago
        Haven't done any hunting, didn't know AR-10 can be useful for that What else for target shooting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon_rifle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon_rifle
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      > Never saw anyone hunt deers using handguns or assault rifles I assume you have never been hunting. Thompson Center makes the Contender handgun specifically for hunting. Every hunter should carry a handgun for self defense if the critters do not cooperate and fall over quickly. Hog hunts can get dicey even if you are experienced and prepared. AR-type rifles are favorites for hunting, but not usually in .223. And of course the reason for an armed and trained population has nothing to do with hunting. It's about stopping predators who prey on good people.
      - cutemonster 3y ago
        Didn't know people use AR rifles for hunting. You're right I don't know much about hunting, or angry hogs and handguns. > stopping predators who prey on good people (You're in the US or somewhere else?)
        defrost 3y ago
  - thwarted 3y ago
    >I fail to see a purpose for guns apart from killing, You can use guns for target shooting, you can use guns as a detterent [sic] when your life is in danger, you can use guns for hunting. Of these three things you listed, two of them are killing. A gun wouldn't be useful as a deterrent if the threat of its application wasn't present—you can't brandish a feather and get the same effect because a feather offers no threat and does not have a reputation of lethal harm. And hunting is literally killing, although it may have a legit purpose, such as sustenance.
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    The question should be: What is the purpose of killing? There are good people who want to be left alone and there are predators. Predators can do a lot of damage over time. I want the good people to stop the predators. In an ideal world, the predators would die the first time they tried to prey on the innocent. That is the purpose of the killing: to stop predators who prey on good people.
- _puk 3y ago
  "The gun is the tool, the mind is the weapon" [0] 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Don%27t_Kill_People,_Rappers_Do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Don%27t_Kill_People,_Ra...
- herval 3y ago
  > Generative AI is capable of distorting reality, but I would argue that it is not the primary purpose of the tool What is its primary purpose?
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    The primary purposes of generative AI are to educate humans and to enhance the productivity of humans.
    - herval 3y ago
      what
      - RecycledEle 3y ago
        > what The primary purposes of generative AI are to educate humans and to enhance the productivity of humans.

jstummbillig 3y ago

The often proposed case against ChatGPT is that everything it produces is illegitimate, no matter how you use it. It would not be the knife in this analogy, it would be the murder.

totetsu 3y ago

It’s an analogy that misses the point entirely. To make Chatgpt openai had to use a data set that included the results of lots of people work. Many people write as labor. It’s their most valuable asset. They didn’t ever get asked if they’d like to let the output of their labour be used to make a writing machine. A machine that transfers the value of their asset to Openai. Also an individual can make moral choices about how to apply their labor. A machine cannot. So it is theft of economic and moral power.

beretguy 3y ago

> We cannot blame stuff for things people do. While I cannot argue that this statement is wrong it does make me wish some things would never have been invented in the first place because of how much harm they can cause and the fact that there will always be a huge chunk of population who will surely abuse those things for bad. Such as nuclear weapons, AI, etc. Sometimes I even wish internet wouldn’t exist so that we could continue living simpler lives.

zamfi 3y ago

> Don't blame ChatGPT if it is misused by someone. I was very careful not to. I’m merely pointing out that availability matters. People’s actions sit in all sorts of levels of gray. Of course it’s up to the person, but that doesn’t mean access/opportunity/circumstance don’t matter.