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“I had depended on the idea that scientific research is a sacred trust” And that is part of the problem. Having gone through a phd, this unspoken religiosity t

“I had depended on the idea that scientific research is a sacred trust” And that is part of the problem. Having gone through a phd, this unspoken religiosity that underlies scientific research where you are expected to be monks for science contributes to stuff like this.

anigbrowl 3y ago
But selfless dedication to the truth is actually the standard you want. ISTM a bigger issue is the practice of grading on a curve, which incentivizes cheating; and once a student gets away with that as an undergrad, it's a pattern that's likely to persist. Some architect grads I knew once mentioned hiding their building models in the classroom ceiling in the leadup tp their final exams. When I asked why, they said that there was a non-trivial risk that if you left your model out in the classroom other students would damage it to let a leg up on the competition, and the more ambitious the final project the greater the risk. In my innocence I was quite shocked, but as so often, once you become aware of such behavior you start noticing it in many other contexts.
- cozzyd 3y ago
  My wife was briefly premed and tells me she suspects someone(s) in orgo lab were hiding reagents from others
  - hiddencost 3y ago
    My mom, in law school, said that students would rip key passages out of the law school books in the library to hurt other students.
- hiddencost 3y ago
  The incentive structure doesn't support doing science for the purpose of discovering the truth.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
GauntletWizard 3y ago
I think you have a poor interpretation of monks. Monks in the catholic orders screw up all the time, make penance, meditate on their mistakes. They recognize that they are human, though sometimes divinely inspired, and seek to correct themselves. At least, some do, and the better orders are built that way. There are plenty of bad ones, too, as I'm sure we've all heard, who don't do any of that - Who lord their pledges of service to the lord over those they consider lesser. That style seems to be more what modern academia is following.

anigbrowl 3y ago

But selfless dedication to the truth is actually the standard you want. ISTM a bigger issue is the practice of grading on a curve, which incentivizes cheating; and once a student gets away with that as an undergrad, it's a pattern that's likely to persist. Some architect grads I knew once mentioned hiding their building models in the classroom ceiling in the leadup tp their final exams. When I asked why, they said that there was a non-trivial risk that if you left your model out in the classroom other students would damage it to let a leg up on the competition, and the more ambitious the final project the greater the risk. In my innocence I was quite shocked, but as so often, once you become aware of such behavior you start noticing it in many other contexts.

cozzyd 3y ago
My wife was briefly premed and tells me she suspects someone(s) in orgo lab were hiding reagents from others
- hiddencost 3y ago
  My mom, in law school, said that students would rip key passages out of the law school books in the library to hurt other students.
hiddencost 3y ago
The incentive structure doesn't support doing science for the purpose of discovering the truth.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

GauntletWizard 3y ago

I think you have a poor interpretation of monks. Monks in the catholic orders screw up all the time, make penance, meditate on their mistakes. They recognize that they are human, though sometimes divinely inspired, and seek to correct themselves. At least, some do, and the better orders are built that way. There are plenty of bad ones, too, as I'm sure we've all heard, who don't do any of that - Who lord their pledges of service to the lord over those they consider lesser. That style seems to be more what modern academia is following.