2 ms·

Because of cases like this and https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-light-timing-lawsuit/ https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins

Because of cases like this and https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-light-timing-lawsuit/ https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-li... I have the opinion that Professional Engineer is a title on par with Microsoft Certified Support Technician. It sounds like a dumbass certification.

bardworx 3y ago
Except an Engineer is liable for their work. However, these cases go too far because it’s one thing to speak about something and another thing to do. https://www.nspe.org/resources/professional-liability/liability-employed-engineers#:~:text=As%20a%20general%20rule%2C%20when,and%2For%20the%20individual%20engineer https://www.nspe.org/resources/professional-liability/liabil....
axoltl 3y ago
This has everything to do with the way the US constitution was designed and nothing with certifications.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Yeah, thank god for the US constitution. It'll keep these half-wit certifications from damaging us.
sircastor 3y ago
I think whats happening in these cases is someone in office gets annoyed that someone else is being critical of them, or their work, or making them look bad. So they lean on the levers they have to make these problems go away. I live in the city where this traffic light mess happened and to me it's an embarrassment that someone tried to use the law to strong arm this guy into shutting up. The certifications are (ostensibly) there to make sure the people who are doing the work are qualified to do it - a protection against scammers and fraudsters doing shoddy engineering work and endangering people. If instead the powers that be uses it as a tool to silence people, it becomes simply a corrupt access point to power.
phkahler 3y ago
It's not a dumbass certification. When briefly looked into it last millennium, you'd best be a recent engineering student whose up on some calculus and physics and I don't recall what. But it also seemed geared toward civil engineering, and in many places large construction projects do have to be signed off by a P.E. But if we had to throw away everything designed by regular ME, EE, and SWEs without a PE involved, we'd be in the technological dark ages.
tekla 3y ago
A PE means that shit you do actually matters. 99.9999999% of Software Devs could take a lesson from it.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  I am glad that software engineers don't have a certification. Man, could you imagine the struggle? You report a bug and it's closed as "Not reported by a PE". You build a better product, but you can't sell it because you're not a PE. You find a horrible security flaw in software but they prevent you from telling the news because you're not a PE. God bless freedom and the First Amendment. And God bless software for being a field so concordant with America's principles.
  - bumby 3y ago
    The SWE may not have a certification but their products sometimes do. If you disagree, try writing avionics software without having it going through a certification process. They aren’t perfect, but to the OPs point, they serve an important function in terms of risk mitigation.
acdha 3y ago
That is very much an incorrect opinion. I know two people who went to very good schools and completed their PE certifications in different states, both of whom described it as quite challenging. It makes sense in those cases because you’re talking about someone getting a professional certification involving positions where they are designing things which, if they fail, are likely to result in a number of deaths.
astrea 3y ago
This is an absolutely wild opinion from someone who I can only assume has no knowledge of what goes into PE certification
- renewiltord 3y ago
  You’ll be pleased to know how little I know of what goes into being certified a homeopathic practitioner by the Council of Homeopathic Certification too.

bardworx 3y ago

Except an Engineer is liable for their work. However, these cases go too far because it’s one thing to speak about something and another thing to do. https://www.nspe.org/resources/professional-liability/liability-employed-engineers#:~:text=As%20a%20general%20rule%2C%20when,and%2For%20the%20individual%20engineer https://www.nspe.org/resources/professional-liability/liabil....

axoltl 3y ago

This has everything to do with the way the US constitution was designed and nothing with certifications.

renewiltord 3y ago
Yeah, thank god for the US constitution. It'll keep these half-wit certifications from damaging us.

sircastor 3y ago

I think whats happening in these cases is someone in office gets annoyed that someone else is being critical of them, or their work, or making them look bad. So they lean on the levers they have to make these problems go away. I live in the city where this traffic light mess happened and to me it's an embarrassment that someone tried to use the law to strong arm this guy into shutting up. The certifications are (ostensibly) there to make sure the people who are doing the work are qualified to do it - a protection against scammers and fraudsters doing shoddy engineering work and endangering people. If instead the powers that be uses it as a tool to silence people, it becomes simply a corrupt access point to power.

phkahler 3y ago

It's not a dumbass certification. When briefly looked into it last millennium, you'd best be a recent engineering student whose up on some calculus and physics and I don't recall what. But it also seemed geared toward civil engineering, and in many places large construction projects do have to be signed off by a P.E. But if we had to throw away everything designed by regular ME, EE, and SWEs without a PE involved, we'd be in the technological dark ages.

tekla 3y ago

A PE means that shit you do actually matters. 99.9999999% of Software Devs could take a lesson from it.

renewiltord 3y ago
I am glad that software engineers don't have a certification. Man, could you imagine the struggle? You report a bug and it's closed as "Not reported by a PE". You build a better product, but you can't sell it because you're not a PE. You find a horrible security flaw in software but they prevent you from telling the news because you're not a PE. God bless freedom and the First Amendment. And God bless software for being a field so concordant with America's principles.
- bumby 3y ago
  The SWE may not have a certification but their products sometimes do. If you disagree, try writing avionics software without having it going through a certification process. They aren’t perfect, but to the OPs point, they serve an important function in terms of risk mitigation.

acdha 3y ago

That is very much an incorrect opinion. I know two people who went to very good schools and completed their PE certifications in different states, both of whom described it as quite challenging. It makes sense in those cases because you’re talking about someone getting a professional certification involving positions where they are designing things which, if they fail, are likely to result in a number of deaths.

astrea 3y ago

This is an absolutely wild opinion from someone who I can only assume has no knowledge of what goes into PE certification

renewiltord 3y ago
You’ll be pleased to know how little I know of what goes into being certified a homeopathic practitioner by the Council of Homeopathic Certification too.