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Why should we care where money comes from so long as it is legal and so long as there is not a national security concern? Should there be any preference for a

by unc0n 3y ago

Why should we care where money comes from so long as it is legal and so long as there is not a national security concern? Should there be any preference for a private french citizen's money as compared to a private chinese citizen's? Isn't that one of the things that makes this country better than places like China which place all sorts of arbitrary restrictions on who can buy certain things there? I agree that the opaqueness of LLCs can be a problem but the fact we have such hysteria about a random student just because he's chinese smacks of racism. Those who are truly concerned about the malign influence that comes along with chinese money would do well to vote with their wallets and not support businesses that end up sending work to china in exchange for money (That and holding accountable the politicians who allowed china to exploit the system of world trade while not playing by the rules). That is your prerogative but the general fungibility of money in a ostensibly free-market system is a virtue that should be preserved.

networkchad 3y ago
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owlglass 3y ago
I am assuming that GP was not specific about Chinese investors' money due to national security concerns or sinophobia. More pressing, especially to anyone hoping to live anywhere near Vancouver, is the fact that Chinese investors account for 1/3 of the total sales volume of property (2016 figures). [1] [1] https://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/chinese-investors-buy-one-third-of-vancouver-homes-national-bank-estimate https://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/chinese-inv...
- cycrutchfield 3y ago
  > Routledge compiled the data by extrapolating from a Financial Times survey of 77 high- end buyers and data from the U.S. National Association of Realtors First, not exactly a large sample size. Second, how did this analyst know if the buyer was a Chinese citizen or just somebody with a Chinese surname?
ra_men 3y ago
For most industries and investments, sure. Shouldn't matter who owns what. Property and real estate have a different utility, in that it provides one of the most foundational needs a person requires. It's not the same as a chinese investment firm buying up various asset classes, non-native investors buying up real estate that could provide shelter to native citizens is a problem.
- cycrutchfield 3y ago
  > non-native investors buying up real estate that could provide shelter to native citizens is a problem Aside from xenophobia, why?
  - justinclift 3y ago
    In a time of plenty for everyone it's probably not so important. But when there are constrained resources it generally makes sense to look after the locals first, before providing for non-locals.
    - cycrutchfield 3y ago
      You only feel that resources are constrained because local governments and NIMBYs work to set the policies that make them constrained. Instead of blaming foreigners, you should blame them.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        Are you projecting? :)
  - pseudo0 3y ago
    It's an obvious national security issue and avenue for potential economic coercion. It also has significant negative externalities for the local economy. For example, good luck convincing a software dev to relocate to Vancouver when a basic detached house costs a couple million dollars. It makes industries that actually produce things uncompetitive compared to services facilitating rich foreigners' asset flight.
pylua 3y ago
It’s not ostensibly a free market. It’s not a free market at all. They’re are also many parts not worth preserving for many reasons.
chollida1 3y ago
THat's an easy answer as I've seen first hand why. It comes down to how transparent a country is and how much rule of law there is there for poeple who are outside of that country. To use your example, there isn't a lot someone in North American can do to track down and get a debt paid by someone in China as the banking system will not cooperate, and the legal system will not cooperate. France on the other hand tends to use the same banks and has very close legal ties so the legal system and the banking system will both cooperate in a way that you could never get from the Chinese legal or banking system if someone from that country owes you money and has assets in France and a North American court has a judgement against them. If a North American court has a judgement against a Chinese citizen residing in China, how cooperative do you think their legal system or banking system will be? So yes, which foreigners that own property can matter a great deal if there is ever a dispute with them.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  You can still get a judgement against them stateside and put a lien on the US property.
  - throwoutway 3y ago
    You can, but you can't get environmental damages corrected, liabilities and damages covered (if say, they caused a fire or disaster in a community), or debts re-paid (if greater than the value of the property). Lots of issues with this. Chinese firms have bought a significant amount of US infrastructure, so it's also a national security issue. https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/20220906-u.s-infrastructure-security-requires-effective-state-level-protection-from-chinese-communist-party-ownership https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/20220906-u.s-infrastru...
    - unc0n 3y ago
      This is a good point, but extends beyond individuals to companies as well, and seems to justify a pretty clear decoupling between China and the rest of the world until China is willing to play by the rules. Should we also then extend the guidelines that constrain foreign students from studying certain subjects in university (historically by not letting certain US government funds for research grants etc pay for those foreign students). It is obvious that China exploits the US educational and research system in a way that doesn't benefit us in the same way, apart from hoping that some students would stay and become productive members of society here who have no interest in funneling IP back to China.
_Parfait_ 3y ago
How can you find out if it's a security concern and wether or not its legal if you don't even know who it comes from???

by unc0n 3y ago

networkchad 3y ago

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owlglass 3y ago

I am assuming that GP was not specific about Chinese investors' money due to national security concerns or sinophobia. More pressing, especially to anyone hoping to live anywhere near Vancouver, is the fact that Chinese investors account for 1/3 of the total sales volume of property (2016 figures). [1] [1] https://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/chinese-investors-buy-one-third-of-vancouver-homes-national-bank-estimate https://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/chinese-inv...

cycrutchfield 3y ago
> Routledge compiled the data by extrapolating from a Financial Times survey of 77 high- end buyers and data from the U.S. National Association of Realtors First, not exactly a large sample size. Second, how did this analyst know if the buyer was a Chinese citizen or just somebody with a Chinese surname?

ra_men 3y ago

For most industries and investments, sure. Shouldn't matter who owns what. Property and real estate have a different utility, in that it provides one of the most foundational needs a person requires. It's not the same as a chinese investment firm buying up various asset classes, non-native investors buying up real estate that could provide shelter to native citizens is a problem.

cycrutchfield 3y ago
> non-native investors buying up real estate that could provide shelter to native citizens is a problem Aside from xenophobia, why?
- justinclift 3y ago
  In a time of plenty for everyone it's probably not so important. But when there are constrained resources it generally makes sense to look after the locals first, before providing for non-locals.
  - cycrutchfield 3y ago
    You only feel that resources are constrained because local governments and NIMBYs work to set the policies that make them constrained. Instead of blaming foreigners, you should blame them.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      Are you projecting? :)
- pseudo0 3y ago
  It's an obvious national security issue and avenue for potential economic coercion. It also has significant negative externalities for the local economy. For example, good luck convincing a software dev to relocate to Vancouver when a basic detached house costs a couple million dollars. It makes industries that actually produce things uncompetitive compared to services facilitating rich foreigners' asset flight.

pylua 3y ago

It’s not ostensibly a free market. It’s not a free market at all. They’re are also many parts not worth preserving for many reasons.

chollida1 3y ago

THat's an easy answer as I've seen first hand why. It comes down to how transparent a country is and how much rule of law there is there for poeple who are outside of that country. To use your example, there isn't a lot someone in North American can do to track down and get a debt paid by someone in China as the banking system will not cooperate, and the legal system will not cooperate. France on the other hand tends to use the same banks and has very close legal ties so the legal system and the banking system will both cooperate in a way that you could never get from the Chinese legal or banking system if someone from that country owes you money and has assets in France and a North American court has a judgement against them. If a North American court has a judgement against a Chinese citizen residing in China, how cooperative do you think their legal system or banking system will be? So yes, which foreigners that own property can matter a great deal if there is ever a dispute with them.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
You can still get a judgement against them stateside and put a lien on the US property.
- throwoutway 3y ago
  You can, but you can't get environmental damages corrected, liabilities and damages covered (if say, they caused a fire or disaster in a community), or debts re-paid (if greater than the value of the property). Lots of issues with this. Chinese firms have bought a significant amount of US infrastructure, so it's also a national security issue. https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/20220906-u.s-infrastructure-security-requires-effective-state-level-protection-from-chinese-communist-party-ownership https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/20220906-u.s-infrastru...
  - unc0n 3y ago
    This is a good point, but extends beyond individuals to companies as well, and seems to justify a pretty clear decoupling between China and the rest of the world until China is willing to play by the rules. Should we also then extend the guidelines that constrain foreign students from studying certain subjects in university (historically by not letting certain US government funds for research grants etc pay for those foreign students). It is obvious that China exploits the US educational and research system in a way that doesn't benefit us in the same way, apart from hoping that some students would stay and become productive members of society here who have no interest in funneling IP back to China.

_Parfait_ 3y ago

How can you find out if it's a security concern and wether or not its legal if you don't even know who it comes from???