4 ms·

Negative prices generally come from large thermal plants, usually nuclear or coal, bidding negative since their ramp times are too slow to lower their output fo

Negative prices generally come from large thermal plants, usually nuclear or coal, bidding negative since their ramp times are too slow to lower their output for the negative period and then be able to increase it again for when prices are expected to become positive again. They are generally unfit for modern grids which require dispatchable energy, and is why "baseload" is an outdated term on the power generation side, while it of course still exists on the consumer side.

n2d4 3y ago
In that case, is my assumption that it's easy to waste energy wrong? I thought you could just shortcircuit the grid (or well, have a little bit of resistance, just not too much, and some way to transfer the heat), that'll just get rid of the energy. Sure, it's a waste, and dangerous, but cheaper than paying for someone else to get rid of it? If that's not the case, what is the most efficient way to waste energy? Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the energy grid.
- BenjiWiebe 3y ago
  Some way to transfer the heat is the hard part here. If you are trying to sink megawatts of power that's a lot of heat.
7thaccount 3y ago
Not too many big thermal plants are bidding that way. The ones that aren't dispatchable at all don't actually offer into the market as a price maker. Instead, they just act as price takers and likely make up for it by being part of a vertically integrated utility playing in the energy market - as in they can have any losses factored into rates. It is far far more common to have wind/solar offering in negative prices as they want to run at any cost to take advantage of the extremely lucrative subsidies. There is limited transmission available, so those various wind farms are competing against each other to just run. Also, you can have negative prices just due to congestion.

4 ms·

Negative prices generally come from large thermal plants, usually nuclear or coal, bidding negative since their ramp times are too slow to lower their output fo

by ViewTrick1002 3y ago

n2d4 3y ago
In that case, is my assumption that it's easy to waste energy wrong? I thought you could just shortcircuit the grid (or well, have a little bit of resistance, just not too much, and some way to transfer the heat), that'll just get rid of the energy. Sure, it's a waste, and dangerous, but cheaper than paying for someone else to get rid of it? If that's not the case, what is the most efficient way to waste energy? Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the energy grid.
- BenjiWiebe 3y ago
  Some way to transfer the heat is the hard part here. If you are trying to sink megawatts of power that's a lot of heat.
7thaccount 3y ago
Not too many big thermal plants are bidding that way. The ones that aren't dispatchable at all don't actually offer into the market as a price maker. Instead, they just act as price takers and likely make up for it by being part of a vertically integrated utility playing in the energy market - as in they can have any losses factored into rates. It is far far more common to have wind/solar offering in negative prices as they want to run at any cost to take advantage of the extremely lucrative subsidies. There is limited transmission available, so those various wind farms are competing against each other to just run. Also, you can have negative prices just due to congestion.