5 ms·

I didn't downvote you but I can see why you were - your Wikipedia article doesn't support your argument - the strongest point it makes is that the UN HRC has an

I didn't downvote you but I can see why you were - your Wikipedia article doesn't support your argument - the strongest point it makes is that the UN HRC has an enquiry into Israel's actions. There's several references to various NGOs calling for action against Israel but as we've seen recently at the Harvard and other Ivy's, that's deeply murky territory. That's very, very far away from your claim that the rest of the world generally accepts that Israel is committing war crimes and instituting apartheid. To repeat, its well established that the rest of the world generally (and increasingly) supports a humanitarian ceasefire in the region.

boston_clone 3y ago
Desmond Tutu alleges "much like what happened to us black people in South Africa": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.is... Irish President accuses Israel of war crimes: https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-irelands-sinn-fein-on-the-rise-support-for-israel-hits-new-low-post-oct-7/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-irelands-sinn-fein-on-the... UN Representatives from South Africa, UK, and India author report on war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mi... Israel's Attorney General accuses state of apartheid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel#Accusations_of_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel#Accusation... Then-VP Biden criticizes settlements in east Jerusalem: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/09/AR2010030900497.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/0... ...and similar statements from an EU High Representative: https://www.consilium.europa.eu//uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/118727.pdf https://www.consilium.europa.eu//uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressd... US Department of State report on racism / discrimination: https://2001-2009.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm UK MP compares actions to Nazi Germany: https://www.jta.org/2009/01/16/global/mp-kaufman-likens-israelis-to-nazis https://www.jta.org/2009/01/16/global/mp-kaufman-likens-isra... Ergodan describes enacted laws as Zionist, fascist: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-state-law-turkey-erdogan-netanyahu-arabic-settlements-west-bank-hitler-a8461991.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-... South African cabinet minister "That is what apartheid and Israel have in common": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.is... That should be a sufficient sample to show this viewpoint is not isolated to only NGOs or one geographic area, and the variance in time should highlight how long this commonly-held recognition has been stated publicly by elected officials.
- corimaith 3y ago
  Many of these examples have external or ideological reasons to do so though. Criticising Israel has no costs while supporting them has costs, but I would imagine that most of them are not going to put actual policy with consequences with that. If anything, they'd be more than enthusiatic to work with Israel when the question of a trade deal or security agreements come up.
  - Sporktacular 3y ago
    "Criticising Israel has no costs while supporting them has costs" It often carries a cost in domestic support. It carries trade costs as the US, Uk and others punish BDS, while no Arab countries impose secondary sanctions on countries that trade with Israel (as many themselves do). This is just untrue.
- SgtBastard 3y ago
  You’re now arguing in bad faith - your original claim was the world generally accepts that Israel commits war crimes and institutes apartheid. You’ve just posted a bunch of links that reference criticisms of Israel, most of which mention neither war crimes nor apartheid. Every nation has faults and the West Bank settlements are deservedly criticised. They are neither apartheid nor a war crime, however.

boston_clone 3y ago

Desmond Tutu alleges "much like what happened to us black people in South Africa": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.is... Irish President accuses Israel of war crimes: https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-irelands-sinn-fein-on-the-rise-support-for-israel-hits-new-low-post-oct-7/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-irelands-sinn-fein-on-the... UN Representatives from South Africa, UK, and India author report on war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mi... Israel's Attorney General accuses state of apartheid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel#Accusations_of_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel#Accusation... Then-VP Biden criticizes settlements in east Jerusalem: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/09/AR2010030900497.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/0... ...and similar statements from an EU High Representative: https://www.consilium.europa.eu//uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/118727.pdf https://www.consilium.europa.eu//uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressd... US Department of State report on racism / discrimination: https://2001-2009.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm UK MP compares actions to Nazi Germany: https://www.jta.org/2009/01/16/global/mp-kaufman-likens-israelis-to-nazis https://www.jta.org/2009/01/16/global/mp-kaufman-likens-isra... Ergodan describes enacted laws as Zionist, fascist: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-state-law-turkey-erdogan-netanyahu-arabic-settlements-west-bank-hitler-a8461991.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-... South African cabinet minister "That is what apartheid and Israel have in common": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.is... That should be a sufficient sample to show this viewpoint is not isolated to only NGOs or one geographic area, and the variance in time should highlight how long this commonly-held recognition has been stated publicly by elected officials.

corimaith 3y ago
Many of these examples have external or ideological reasons to do so though. Criticising Israel has no costs while supporting them has costs, but I would imagine that most of them are not going to put actual policy with consequences with that. If anything, they'd be more than enthusiatic to work with Israel when the question of a trade deal or security agreements come up.
- Sporktacular 3y ago
  "Criticising Israel has no costs while supporting them has costs" It often carries a cost in domestic support. It carries trade costs as the US, Uk and others punish BDS, while no Arab countries impose secondary sanctions on countries that trade with Israel (as many themselves do). This is just untrue.
SgtBastard 3y ago
You’re now arguing in bad faith - your original claim was the world generally accepts that Israel commits war crimes and institutes apartheid. You’ve just posted a bunch of links that reference criticisms of Israel, most of which mention neither war crimes nor apartheid. Every nation has faults and the West Bank settlements are deservedly criticised. They are neither apartheid nor a war crime, however.