3 ms·

If you can't do it at home safely with about 5 seconds of effort, you will never beat conventionally charged batteries. 98% of EV charging happens this way. Tr

by elif 3y ago

If you can't do it at home safely with about 5 seconds of effort, you will never beat conventionally charged batteries. 98% of EV charging happens this way. Trying to emulate traditional fuel stations is actually chasing a 2% use case... Like trying to out-perform cloud storage with a better jazz drive it's just an anachronistically bad interpretation of the fundamental problem.

tmikaeld 3y ago
As mentioned in the article, the fluid can be recharged inside the vehicle, the pumping is just an option to speed it up.
kragen 3y ago
your argument, if it were correct, would entail that gasoline cars could never have become popular, since it in no way depends on the 2x specific energy advantage li-ion has over victorian-era lead-acid batteries this suggests that some crucial aspects of the situation have escaped your notice, so perhaps your dismissal is too hasty
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> can't do it at home safely with about 5 seconds of effort, you will never beat conventionally charged batteries As the article points out, conventional batteries are a logistical nightmare on a battlefield.
- adrianN 3y ago
  On a battlefield you can probably just pay the premium for e-fuel.
tbarbugli 3y ago
I live in a mid-sized city in NL, lots of EVs here. 98% of these car are not charged at home.
- davedx 3y ago
  I live in NL and I challenge your assertion about home charging. What do you base it on? Most people on my street with an EV have a home charger, even the apartment blocks have them outside.
manmal 3y ago
I‘d like to challenge that. Having a vehicle anchored to a certain location just so it can charge is not ideal. It prevents use by many people living in apartments, and it’s a problem when driving a lot within one day. It means you have to have a lot more infrastructure (charging points) than ICE vehicles (petrol stations).
atoav 3y ago
But this is not the tradeoff here. The tradeoff is convenient charging at home vs fast charging on the road. So trying to emulate traditional fueling procedures isn't just pure anachronism, it is about not having to wait for ages on a charging station in the middle of nowhere to get another go at maximum range.
ajb 3y ago
At the moment, many people who live in a terrace or flat, may find it easy to keep a fossil fuel car but hard to be able to rely on charging an EV at home. In a terrace, you can't guarantee that you can park outside your house necessarily. Eventually, the local authority or landlord may install charging on every parking slot, but until then lots of people don't want to deal with the anxiety of not knowing if they can charge today.
- doublespanner 3y ago
  Is the overlap between terrace and apartment renters and new car buyers all that high anyway?
  - ajb 3y ago
    Firstly, not all of them are rented. It will be a bit lower due to higher use of public transport and lower average income. But it represents a large fraction of car ownership (about 30% of total cars; not sure about new)
  - yladiz 3y ago
    In Germany, the majority of people rent apartments, so yes, depending on where you live in the world there is a large overlap.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  What percentage of vehicle owners use non-dedicated street parking? As you say, eventually this situation will be addressed by municipalities. So if we’re talking about the last 20-30% of customers it seems right to treat this as an edge case and deal with it last.
cracrecry 3y ago
If what they say in the web page is right, it will be very useful. From big trucks to electrical grid load balancing, energy storage in companies or homes, shipping industry.
tzs 3y ago
> 98% of EV charging happens this way. Trying to emulate traditional fuel stations is actually chasing a 2% use case... 98% of EV charging probably happens that way now because only 1.2% of cars in the US are EVs. Most people who cannot charge at home avoid EVs. Do you think it will remain a 2% use case when EVs are the majority of cars?
Fatnino 3y ago
You can still plug in your car and charge up this fluid at home just as you would with a lithium battery. And the stations where you change fluid can charge it too and put it back into circulation for the next customer. And if demand is larger than that station can charge then a tanker truck can pull up and replenish the underground tanks. If you find yourself stranded on the side of the road, you simply drain some depleted fluid into a red gas can, hike down the road to the nearest station and exchange it for a gallon of energized fluid. All the benefits of conventional EVs without the downsides.

by elif 3y ago

tmikaeld 3y ago

As mentioned in the article, the fluid can be recharged inside the vehicle, the pumping is just an option to speed it up.

kragen 3y ago

your argument, if it were correct, would entail that gasoline cars could never have become popular, since it in no way depends on the 2x specific energy advantage li-ion has over victorian-era lead-acid batteries this suggests that some crucial aspects of the situation have escaped your notice, so perhaps your dismissal is too hasty

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> can't do it at home safely with about 5 seconds of effort, you will never beat conventionally charged batteries As the article points out, conventional batteries are a logistical nightmare on a battlefield.

adrianN 3y ago
On a battlefield you can probably just pay the premium for e-fuel.

tbarbugli 3y ago

I live in a mid-sized city in NL, lots of EVs here. 98% of these car are not charged at home.

davedx 3y ago
I live in NL and I challenge your assertion about home charging. What do you base it on? Most people on my street with an EV have a home charger, even the apartment blocks have them outside.

manmal 3y ago

I‘d like to challenge that. Having a vehicle anchored to a certain location just so it can charge is not ideal. It prevents use by many people living in apartments, and it’s a problem when driving a lot within one day. It means you have to have a lot more infrastructure (charging points) than ICE vehicles (petrol stations).

atoav 3y ago

But this is not the tradeoff here. The tradeoff is convenient charging at home vs fast charging on the road. So trying to emulate traditional fueling procedures isn't just pure anachronism, it is about not having to wait for ages on a charging station in the middle of nowhere to get another go at maximum range.

ajb 3y ago

At the moment, many people who live in a terrace or flat, may find it easy to keep a fossil fuel car but hard to be able to rely on charging an EV at home. In a terrace, you can't guarantee that you can park outside your house necessarily. Eventually, the local authority or landlord may install charging on every parking slot, but until then lots of people don't want to deal with the anxiety of not knowing if they can charge today.

doublespanner 3y ago
Is the overlap between terrace and apartment renters and new car buyers all that high anyway?
- ajb 3y ago
  Firstly, not all of them are rented. It will be a bit lower due to higher use of public transport and lower average income. But it represents a large fraction of car ownership (about 30% of total cars; not sure about new)
- yladiz 3y ago
  In Germany, the majority of people rent apartments, so yes, depending on where you live in the world there is a large overlap.
matthewdgreen 3y ago
What percentage of vehicle owners use non-dedicated street parking? As you say, eventually this situation will be addressed by municipalities. So if we’re talking about the last 20-30% of customers it seems right to treat this as an edge case and deal with it last.

cracrecry 3y ago

If what they say in the web page is right, it will be very useful. From big trucks to electrical grid load balancing, energy storage in companies or homes, shipping industry.

tzs 3y ago

> 98% of EV charging happens this way. Trying to emulate traditional fuel stations is actually chasing a 2% use case... 98% of EV charging probably happens that way now because only 1.2% of cars in the US are EVs. Most people who cannot charge at home avoid EVs. Do you think it will remain a 2% use case when EVs are the majority of cars?

Fatnino 3y ago

You can still plug in your car and charge up this fluid at home just as you would with a lithium battery. And the stations where you change fluid can charge it too and put it back into circulation for the next customer. And if demand is larger than that station can charge then a tanker truck can pull up and replenish the underground tanks. If you find yourself stranded on the side of the road, you simply drain some depleted fluid into a red gas can, hike down the road to the nearest station and exchange it for a gallon of energized fluid. All the benefits of conventional EVs without the downsides.