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Would you ask a girl or guy [with whom you have an established non-sexual relationship] out for the first time over text message? Or ask someone to marry you? W

Would you ask a girl or guy [with whom you have an established non-sexual relationship] out for the first time over text message? Or ask someone to marry you? Would you break up with them over SMS? For the sake of your happiness, I'd hope the answer is "No." The potential for miscommunication is much higher once you add delay and limit expression to words and emoticons. Now think of how such an approach to communication might harm your prospects of establishing connections and managing relationships with potential business partners.

mjn 15y ago
Over AIM, sure, though not with a random name I pulled out of a hat or something. I think I've had most of my "heavy" conversations over IM, even with people I regularly speak to in person. It just lends itself better to that, imo, and greatly increases real conversation while reducing the risk of miscommunication. I'm not sure what the strange condescension is in the "for your sake", there. It's a kind of conversation. Perhaps it doesn't work for you, or you aren't very fluent in it. But between pairs of people who're used to it and who both "get it", it has plenty of nuances; it's not some strange caricature of exchanging telegrams with smileys in them. There are definitely people where it does feel like that, and I don't have real conversations with those people over IM, because it's just not their thing. Same with a phone really; with some people phone conversations work well, and with others they work very poorly. I personally rank IM above phone in the nuance and avoidance of miscommunication department, so I would never want to have serious discussions with a risk of miscommunication over a phone. They're in a weird uncanny-valley place imo, but they do work for other people from what I can tell. I don't use text/SMS a lot, so don't have a strong opinion on how that works. For people who have smartphone interfaces to SMS it seems it would be similar to a text chat, but I wouldn't want to venture a conclusion without knowing more.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  What I'm saying is that it is intuitive for most people that for the situations in our lives that really matter most to us and the relationships we form, we know to be present in person, and fully engaged with our undivided attention. Then, it's not too far of a logical stretch to realize how such an approach is not unique to romantic relationships, allowing you to have a more effective impact on your business relationships as well.
  - mjn 15y ago
    Well, your first sentence is simply a prejudice that is true only for some people, so the logical conclusion clearly doesn't follow. :) But it's not clear to me when we started talking about business relationships. That's not what either the article or my comment are about, is it? I don't really have an opinion on how to best run a business; the whole remote-work versus in-office work debate is a large, separate debate.
    - WiseWeasel 15y ago
      I'm not refuting your claim that text or instant message content can be deep. What I want to highlight is that relying on such methods of communication when decisions with substantial consequences need to be made, or you want to get someone on board with your idea, can be treacherous. Managing romantic relationships is a widely-relatable example of this. I bring up the business relationship aspect because HN is focused on entrepreneurship, and many of the readers are interested in the subject. Even for non-entrepreneurs, successfully managing your business relationships would likely be of interest.
dalore 15y ago
With dating it's quite common to ask someone out the first time via text. Especially online dating.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  By that point, you've already connected and made clear your romantic interest. That will not always be the case in other relationships.
Swizec 15y ago
Perhaps it's different because of my age where everyone has grown up with technology and conversing online. But yes, yes I would (and have) do all of those things online, via textual communication. It's never gone badly. Especially when it comes to breaking up, it's much better over text since both parties can calmly-ish discuss the matter. Doing it face-to-face is just a bunch of awkward "uhm"s and "ahm"s and sad faces. It's a train wreck.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  Life has awkward moments. It's better to take your bitter medicine and deal with it correctly than try to hide behind the safety of physical distance. People can be vindictive, and breaking up with someone over IM is a fantastic way to get them really pissed off at you, and to wake up to find a brick through your windshield (if you're lucky). As for asking someone to marry you over IM or SMS, pics or it didn't happen.
cafard 15y ago
Wasn't this what helped SMS take off originally in Europe, kids text other kids to ask them out? Breaking up over SMS seems chicken to me; I am not especially good at conflict, but I always thought I owed it to the other party to explain myself face to face. Asking out, why not? Three hours of of somebody's evening is no huge commitment.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  I guess the situation in my mind was asking a girl you already know, possibly as a friend or work/school colleague, to switch to a romantic relationship (confessing your love). There is great potential for miscommunication in those situations, as you're trying to change your respective roles. If you just met her, and so your roles are not already established, then sure, text away.

mjn 15y ago

Over AIM, sure, though not with a random name I pulled out of a hat or something. I think I've had most of my "heavy" conversations over IM, even with people I regularly speak to in person. It just lends itself better to that, imo, and greatly increases real conversation while reducing the risk of miscommunication. I'm not sure what the strange condescension is in the "for your sake", there. It's a kind of conversation. Perhaps it doesn't work for you, or you aren't very fluent in it. But between pairs of people who're used to it and who both "get it", it has plenty of nuances; it's not some strange caricature of exchanging telegrams with smileys in them. There are definitely people where it does feel like that, and I don't have real conversations with those people over IM, because it's just not their thing. Same with a phone really; with some people phone conversations work well, and with others they work very poorly. I personally rank IM above phone in the nuance and avoidance of miscommunication department, so I would never want to have serious discussions with a risk of miscommunication over a phone. They're in a weird uncanny-valley place imo, but they do work for other people from what I can tell. I don't use text/SMS a lot, so don't have a strong opinion on how that works. For people who have smartphone interfaces to SMS it seems it would be similar to a text chat, but I wouldn't want to venture a conclusion without knowing more.

WiseWeasel 15y ago
What I'm saying is that it is intuitive for most people that for the situations in our lives that really matter most to us and the relationships we form, we know to be present in person, and fully engaged with our undivided attention. Then, it's not too far of a logical stretch to realize how such an approach is not unique to romantic relationships, allowing you to have a more effective impact on your business relationships as well.
- mjn 15y ago
  Well, your first sentence is simply a prejudice that is true only for some people, so the logical conclusion clearly doesn't follow. :) But it's not clear to me when we started talking about business relationships. That's not what either the article or my comment are about, is it? I don't really have an opinion on how to best run a business; the whole remote-work versus in-office work debate is a large, separate debate.
  - WiseWeasel 15y ago
    I'm not refuting your claim that text or instant message content can be deep. What I want to highlight is that relying on such methods of communication when decisions with substantial consequences need to be made, or you want to get someone on board with your idea, can be treacherous. Managing romantic relationships is a widely-relatable example of this. I bring up the business relationship aspect because HN is focused on entrepreneurship, and many of the readers are interested in the subject. Even for non-entrepreneurs, successfully managing your business relationships would likely be of interest.

dalore 15y ago

With dating it's quite common to ask someone out the first time via text. Especially online dating.

WiseWeasel 15y ago
By that point, you've already connected and made clear your romantic interest. That will not always be the case in other relationships.

Swizec 15y ago

Perhaps it's different because of my age where everyone has grown up with technology and conversing online. But yes, yes I would (and have) do all of those things online, via textual communication. It's never gone badly. Especially when it comes to breaking up, it's much better over text since both parties can calmly-ish discuss the matter. Doing it face-to-face is just a bunch of awkward "uhm"s and "ahm"s and sad faces. It's a train wreck.

WiseWeasel 15y ago
Life has awkward moments. It's better to take your bitter medicine and deal with it correctly than try to hide behind the safety of physical distance. People can be vindictive, and breaking up with someone over IM is a fantastic way to get them really pissed off at you, and to wake up to find a brick through your windshield (if you're lucky). As for asking someone to marry you over IM or SMS, pics or it didn't happen.

cafard 15y ago

Wasn't this what helped SMS take off originally in Europe, kids text other kids to ask them out? Breaking up over SMS seems chicken to me; I am not especially good at conflict, but I always thought I owed it to the other party to explain myself face to face. Asking out, why not? Three hours of of somebody's evening is no huge commitment.

WiseWeasel 15y ago
I guess the situation in my mind was asking a girl you already know, possibly as a friend or work/school colleague, to switch to a romantic relationship (confessing your love). There is great potential for miscommunication in those situations, as you're trying to change your respective roles. If you just met her, and so your roles are not already established, then sure, text away.