4 ms·

Because there are many still-popular and important literary works like those of Shakespeare and the King James Bible which benefit from understanding the distin

Because there are many still-popular and important literary works like those of Shakespeare and the King James Bible which benefit from understanding the distinction.

panarky 3y ago
For most of my life I've quietly despised the people in the church of my youth for switching to thee/thou/thy in public prayers. I always thought this was grandstanding performance of piety, or cargo cult mumbo jumbo, or both. It just seemed so silly to think that God only understands archaic English. Now it turns out these people I despised were only being respectful, and trying to use the formal forms? However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" were actually the informal forms of "you" in 17th century English, now I'm really confused why they suddenly started talking this way the moment they crossed the threshold of the church.
- trealira 3y ago
  > However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" are the informal forms of "you", now I'm really confused why they do this. Unnecessary reverence of the King James Bible translation, probably.
- janandonly 3y ago
  As far as I know, you actually is the formal, originally plural version (ye/you/your) and thou was the informal version (thou/thee/thy/thine). Over time, thou became impolitely informal and is now no longer used, though interestingly enough, nowadays it might even be perceived as more formal than you because it's archaic and survives almost exclusively in liturgical language.
- dwheeler 3y ago
  In Old English "thou" is singular, "you" is plural. As noted in Wikipedia: > As William Tyndale translated the Bible into English in the early 16th century, he preserved the singular and plural distinctions that he found in his Hebrew and Greek originals. He used thou for the singular and ye for the plural regardless of the relative status of the speaker and the addressee. Tyndale's usage was standard for the period and mirrored that found in the earlier Wycliffe's Bible and the later King James Bible. Later, presumably due to French influence, "thou" became informal and "you" formal. Finally "thou" was dropped from everyday speech, though it still shows up in various old phrases.
- ogogmad 3y ago
  In ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek, there was no T/V distinction, so their equivalent of "thou" was never considered informal. Some Early Modern translators of the bible tried to preserve the thou/you distinction as it existed in ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek, while deliberately ignoring how it worked in the languages they were translating into. This then influenced the language of prayer. Another pattern is that religious language tends to be archaic. For example, Jews pray in ancient Hebrew, Muslims in classical Arabic, some Catholics in classical Latin, and so on. I don't know whether this is done to create a sense of awe and mystery, or because religions try to appear unchanging.

Because there are many still-popular and important literary works like those of Shakespeare and the King James Bible which benefit from understanding the distinction.

panarky 3y ago

For most of my life I've quietly despised the people in the church of my youth for switching to thee/thou/thy in public prayers. I always thought this was grandstanding performance of piety, or cargo cult mumbo jumbo, or both. It just seemed so silly to think that God only understands archaic English. Now it turns out these people I despised were only being respectful, and trying to use the formal forms? However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" were actually the informal forms of "you" in 17th century English, now I'm really confused why they suddenly started talking this way the moment they crossed the threshold of the church.

trealira 3y ago
> However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" are the informal forms of "you", now I'm really confused why they do this. Unnecessary reverence of the King James Bible translation, probably.
janandonly 3y ago
As far as I know, you actually is the formal, originally plural version (ye/you/your) and thou was the informal version (thou/thee/thy/thine). Over time, thou became impolitely informal and is now no longer used, though interestingly enough, nowadays it might even be perceived as more formal than you because it's archaic and survives almost exclusively in liturgical language.
dwheeler 3y ago
In Old English "thou" is singular, "you" is plural. As noted in Wikipedia: > As William Tyndale translated the Bible into English in the early 16th century, he preserved the singular and plural distinctions that he found in his Hebrew and Greek originals. He used thou for the singular and ye for the plural regardless of the relative status of the speaker and the addressee. Tyndale's usage was standard for the period and mirrored that found in the earlier Wycliffe's Bible and the later King James Bible. Later, presumably due to French influence, "thou" became informal and "you" formal. Finally "thou" was dropped from everyday speech, though it still shows up in various old phrases.
ogogmad 3y ago
In ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek, there was no T/V distinction, so their equivalent of "thou" was never considered informal. Some Early Modern translators of the bible tried to preserve the thou/you distinction as it existed in ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek, while deliberately ignoring how it worked in the languages they were translating into. This then influenced the language of prayer. Another pattern is that religious language tends to be archaic. For example, Jews pray in ancient Hebrew, Muslims in classical Arabic, some Catholics in classical Latin, and so on. I don't know whether this is done to create a sense of awe and mystery, or because religions try to appear unchanging.