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Context for anyone not familiar with it - Julius Caesar has been assassinated by a group led by Brutus. They reluctantly allow Antony (a close ally of Caesar) t

by pge 3y ago

Context for anyone not familiar with it - Julius Caesar has been assassinated by a group led by Brutus. They reluctantly allow Antony (a close ally of Caesar) to give a eulogy at the public funeral. According to Plutarch and others, Antony's eulogy set off a riot, leading ultimately to the overthrow of Caesar's assassins. The speech in this video is Shakespeare's imagining of Antony's eulogy in which he initally appears to praise Brutus ("Brutus is an honourable man") but gradually turns the crowd against him. Just brilliant - there's a reason we're still reading shakespeare 400 years later...

tgv 3y ago
I'm afraid that English teachers here are killing Shakespeare. They hardly make their pupils read Shakespeare, but instead try to make it fun! Oh, so much fun. Yes, youngster, let's make fun. Shall I tell you about Shakespeare's dick jokes? Haha, I'm sure you're going to like that and pay attention. And then all they remember is vague jokes they can't tell, because they don't have the vocabulary.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Shakespeare's dick jokes were equally for the contemporary audience. Man knew his patrons, who didn't all know the finer points of their letters.
- pge 3y ago
  It’s not just trying to make it fun - a lot of teachers just don’t know the material well enough to teach it. My daughter’s English teacher (in a highly regarded high school) taught them that “Wherefore art thou Romeo?” was archaic English for “Where are you?” because Juliet didn’t know where he was (like “Wherefore are my car keys?”, he said). If the teacher doesn’t understand one of the most famous and most important lines in one of Shakespeare’s most read and most taught plays, how will the students ever learn to understand it?
- Zetobal 3y ago
  It's not making it fun. It's making them read at all. Go into a classroom of 8-10th grades and have your fucking mind blown. Both comments yours and the guy who says that they don't know the source material anymore are just so unbelievable pretentious and condescending it hurts.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Teaching middle schoolers is just about the worst job in the world. But at least it pays poorly /s
    - eszed 3y ago
      On the contrary, it's one of the best jobs in the world. Kids that age are just old enough to comprehend complex ideas, without (yet) having spent enough time in the educational system to have all of their curiosity and creativity beaten out of them. The best trick is to pitch whatever you want them to do as somehow slightly subversive, and they'll follow you anywhere. On the other hand, yeah: teaching has been made into one of the worst careers (at least for educated people) there is, which is why I'm not doing it anymore.
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        it's probably that some people don't think it's the worst job in the world that it continues to pay so little. for me, it would be. YMMV.
        eszed 3y ago
        That's fair. Teaching provides immense non-monetary rewards for people who have the temperament and ability to achieve them. (It also provides non-monetary rewards for people with toxic and authoritarian personality traits, but that's kind of a separate issue.) The educational system continues to run (to the extent that it continues to run) because it takes (economic) advantage of people's idealism. Education isn't the only sector that does that. Medicine has become that, as well. OSS would be a tech-related example. Some years ago I read a piece, only partly tongue in cheek, by an economist who posited that rates of pay are inversely correlated with the good any particular job does for humanity. I see that observation regularly confirmed.
- class3shock 3y ago
  I know this won't be a popular opinion but maybe it's just kids not liking being forced to care about stories spoken in an archaic form of english that make them unintelligible and thus unenjoyable to read?
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    no kid in history has ever liked it. It's the teacher's job to make sure they learn something anyway.
  - drivingmenuts 3y ago
    As a former theatre student with a BA in Drana, I love performing Shakespeare, but hate reading it or watching someone else perform it. The stories may be universal, but everything else about them is a product of the time they were written in. Yes, they’re important but don’t burden kids with having to learn the finer nuances that even escape most adults.
  - tgv 3y ago
    Not everybody has to like it. If you reach 10%, that's good enough. The rest can consume it as general knowledge. At least it'll elevate their knowledge of English a bit more than focusing on dick jokes.
ethbr1 3y ago
The quality of Roman oratory (as attested to in the historical record and imagined by Shakespeare later) is impressive. Performed, for the thinking public, to plant a thought inside their heads. Political speeches are so hamfisted, lowest-common-denominator affairs these days. And why should they not be? (Also, I'll watch Damian Lewis in anything)
- asimpletune 3y ago
  If you think they’re good, just wait till you read the Athenian speeches. So good.

by pge 3y ago

tgv 3y ago

I'm afraid that English teachers here are killing Shakespeare. They hardly make their pupils read Shakespeare, but instead try to make it fun! Oh, so much fun. Yes, youngster, let's make fun. Shall I tell you about Shakespeare's dick jokes? Haha, I'm sure you're going to like that and pay attention. And then all they remember is vague jokes they can't tell, because they don't have the vocabulary.

ethbr1 3y ago
Shakespeare's dick jokes were equally for the contemporary audience. Man knew his patrons, who didn't all know the finer points of their letters.
pge 3y ago
It’s not just trying to make it fun - a lot of teachers just don’t know the material well enough to teach it. My daughter’s English teacher (in a highly regarded high school) taught them that “Wherefore art thou Romeo?” was archaic English for “Where are you?” because Juliet didn’t know where he was (like “Wherefore are my car keys?”, he said). If the teacher doesn’t understand one of the most famous and most important lines in one of Shakespeare’s most read and most taught plays, how will the students ever learn to understand it?
Zetobal 3y ago
It's not making it fun. It's making them read at all. Go into a classroom of 8-10th grades and have your fucking mind blown. Both comments yours and the guy who says that they don't know the source material anymore are just so unbelievable pretentious and condescending it hurts.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Teaching middle schoolers is just about the worst job in the world. But at least it pays poorly /s
  - eszed 3y ago
    On the contrary, it's one of the best jobs in the world. Kids that age are just old enough to comprehend complex ideas, without (yet) having spent enough time in the educational system to have all of their curiosity and creativity beaten out of them. The best trick is to pitch whatever you want them to do as somehow slightly subversive, and they'll follow you anywhere. On the other hand, yeah: teaching has been made into one of the worst careers (at least for educated people) there is, which is why I'm not doing it anymore.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      it's probably that some people don't think it's the worst job in the world that it continues to pay so little. for me, it would be. YMMV.
      - eszed 3y ago
        That's fair. Teaching provides immense non-monetary rewards for people who have the temperament and ability to achieve them. (It also provides non-monetary rewards for people with toxic and authoritarian personality traits, but that's kind of a separate issue.) The educational system continues to run (to the extent that it continues to run) because it takes (economic) advantage of people's idealism. Education isn't the only sector that does that. Medicine has become that, as well. OSS would be a tech-related example. Some years ago I read a piece, only partly tongue in cheek, by an economist who posited that rates of pay are inversely correlated with the good any particular job does for humanity. I see that observation regularly confirmed.
class3shock 3y ago
I know this won't be a popular opinion but maybe it's just kids not liking being forced to care about stories spoken in an archaic form of english that make them unintelligible and thus unenjoyable to read?
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  no kid in history has ever liked it. It's the teacher's job to make sure they learn something anyway.
- drivingmenuts 3y ago
  As a former theatre student with a BA in Drana, I love performing Shakespeare, but hate reading it or watching someone else perform it. The stories may be universal, but everything else about them is a product of the time they were written in. Yes, they’re important but don’t burden kids with having to learn the finer nuances that even escape most adults.
- tgv 3y ago
  Not everybody has to like it. If you reach 10%, that's good enough. The rest can consume it as general knowledge. At least it'll elevate their knowledge of English a bit more than focusing on dick jokes.

ethbr1 3y ago

The quality of Roman oratory (as attested to in the historical record and imagined by Shakespeare later) is impressive. Performed, for the thinking public, to plant a thought inside their heads. Political speeches are so hamfisted, lowest-common-denominator affairs these days. And why should they not be? (Also, I'll watch Damian Lewis in anything)

asimpletune 3y ago
If you think they’re good, just wait till you read the Athenian speeches. So good.