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Windows 12: Savior of PC makers, or just an apology for Windows 11?
- lelag 3y agoThe pattern of MS releasing badly received OS every other major release is well known. XP -> hit, Vista -> miss, Windows -> 7 hit, Windows 8 -> miss, Windows 10 -> hit, Windows 11 miss. With this track record, it's not surprising people expect Windows 12 to be good...
- kreeben 3y agoI love this meme. It's one of my favorites. But Win10 was actually a turd and Win11 was a polished turd with a stinky one of an ad-on: more ads and more fingerprinting. I xpect Win12 to be more turd and Win13 to be diarrhea.
- baal80spam 3y agoI was going to post the same. Calling Win10 a hit is a gross exaggeration. It was pretty much universally hated at release.
- yetanotherloss 3y agoAnd largely still is. There was mass resistance to leaving windows 7 which was the last release they basically worked like people had learned to use it. Getting stuff like user mode drivers and bitlocker and all the is nice but almost nothing had been added to the core product that users themselves much cared about. 3d object collections pinned to opening labels and the only way to get rid of it is registry hacks. Who was that "feature" ever even for?
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- anakaine 3y agoI think you guys must be in an echo chamber of Windows 10 hate. By and large almost everyone I know who is remotely techy, and even some who aren't actually like Win 10
- yetanotherloss 3y agoMy work laptop has been on 10 LTSC for years. I don't "hate it" but I've never heard anyone talk about liking it so much as tolerating it to run the stuff they care about. Maybe it's super great on those surface tablets but all the techy people I know using tablets on are iPads.
- HideousKojima 3y agoIt was less hated than 8 at release, so by comparison it was loved
- stby 3y agoDoes 10 really have less ads and telemetry, though? 10 is still getting updates and a lot of annoying "features" seem to get back ported (like the "fact of the day" thing in the search bar that always opens Bing), and I've never seen any proof that 11 actually does collect even more data than 10. Not defending 11 here, it's just that 10 was pretty ill received here an hn and ever since 11 came out, the opinions suddenly changed, which seems a bit weird to me.
- nly 3y agoWas XP really a hit? I remember rejecting it in favour of SP4 for Windows 2000 for the longest time. It was only once XP SP2 dropped in 2004 that it became usable
- nullstyle 3y agoCompared to Windows ME, I remember it as a hit. Windows 2000 was a homerun though
- tetris11 3y agoThe student edition was particularly well received around campuses
- nicoburns 3y agoXP SP2 was a huge hit. And it had a long run after it dropped until 7 was released (many people skipped vista)
- neogodless 3y agoFor consumers, XP had most of the stability of 2000 but the drivers and game compatibility of 98. While I loved 2000 as a huge improvement over 98, I really liked XP and found it (relatively) trouble free and resource light.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoYes, XP was a hit. It was perfectly usable, and quite popular, well before SP2.
- fotcorn 3y agoI remember similar things. Running Windows 2000, even going back to Win98 on my first PC (shipped with XP before SP1) and also running Windows 2003 Server at some point, all just to avoid XP. After SP2, it was fine.
- blue_cookeh 3y agoThis conveniently misses out versions such as 2000, ME, and 8.1. The "miss" of Vista can also be largely attributed to lazy hardware manufacturers that didn't want to rewrite their device drivers.
- baobun 3y ago2000 -> hit, ME -> miss, XP -> hit, Vista -> miss, 7 -> hit, 8 -> miss, 10 -> hit, 11 -> miss 8.1 is more like a SP for 8. That should cover all the major desktop releases for the past 23 years.
- Kye 3y agoXP needed a few service packs to be really good. It broke everything at launch because of the kernel switchover. By SP3, most software was caught up or covered by compatibility layers.
- timbit42 3y agoWindows 2000 doesn't really count any more than WinNT 3.x or WinNT 4 do as they were for business use and weren't very popular on desktops. Win1 -> miss, Win2 -> miss, Win3 -> better, Win3.1 -> hit, Win95 -> ok, Win98[SE] -> hit, WinME -> miss, WinXP -> hit, ...
- phendrenad2 3y ago> The consensus seems to be that Windows 12 will arrive sometime next year. Microsoft's hardware partners are expecting it. Going to need to see some evidence on that one, chief.
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- lencastre 3y agoUnpopular opinion: I like Win11 (that district which is bloatware-lite) and running shutup10 to fully uninstall Cortana, ShatGPT, and disable the extra sneaky telemetry and privacy nightmares… can’t complain.
- kreeben 3y ago>> fully uninstall Cortana >> disable the extra sneaky telemetry and privacy nightmares Does that require a rinse and repeat at every monthly Windows Update?
- II2II 3y agoThe article isn't very critical of Windows 11. It simply points out that many consumers didn't feel like it was a compelling upgrade if it meant upgrading their computer as well. Then you have the usual inertia with Windows. This isn't the first time Microsoft has put out a less than compelling upgrade.
- anakaine 3y agoAs a rule of thumb, every second release is a turd. Windows 8 was a turd. Windows 10 was quite good. Windows 11 seems to walk, talk, and smell like a turd.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoI too like windows 11. From a UX perspective it's much better than Windows 10. Chop out the unnecessary bits and it's a solid contender.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoWhat makes Win11 bad is precisely those unnecessary bits, though. Sure, Win11 is perfectly fine if you take the time to de-crapify it. But the point is that your OS should not come with crapware out of the box! Windows used to not need that, and there's no excuse for MS adding all the consumer hostile crap they have added in recent years.
- fx1994 3y agothey will bloat it more with copilot/edge/online/office/onedrive services so it will be shit like everything else. why can't they focus on core windows making it stable, fast and everything else optional, ah, it's MS, it's impossible to have it my way, they will do it their way, that's why I asked for M2PRO this year in my company and I'm delighted how good it is. Middle finger to MS.
- throwawa14223 3y ago> why can't they focus on core windows making it stable, fast and everything else optional Could it be that Linux makes competing on core stability a losing game?
- LASR 3y agoWhen I started seeing sports scores on the Windows start menu was my last straw. Haven’t looked back since.
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- hammyhavoc 3y agoLinux is the savior.
- Kye 3y agoNone of the software I use runs on it, and no equivalents are available for it. No, not even the list you want to rattle off if I name specific tools.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoI don't want to rattle off any list. Works for me for my needs. Wake me when Windows offers a real-time kernel.
- Kye 3y agoThen why overstate it?
- hammyhavoc 3y agoIt isn't an overstatement when there's countless Linux-first hardware brands popping up lately. Likewise when the Steam Deck happens and major brands start offering first-party Linux support and even an install option out of the box for Linux. You're understating and downplaying what's happening. Valve dropped support for macOS on Steam. There are more Linux users than there are macOS users.
- timbit42 3y agoThe few Windows apps I need can be run on Linux using Wine or a VM. There is no need to put up with Microsoft Windows' crap to run a few Windows apps. You should like someone who has only ever used Windows and are afraid of trying something else in case it's better.
- Kye 3y agoI've used Linux for decades and still use it where it's the right choice. I do actually know what I'm talking about.
- dist-epoch 3y agoWindows 11 could cause one of the biggest environmental disasters in recent computer industry history. I have a 2013 desktop which can't run Windows 11, it's still on 10. What will happen when 10 is end of life? The desktop is plenty for non-professional usage - 4c/8t, 32 GB RAM, SSD. There are tons of computers like this one, very few actually need the power of a recent computer.
- steelbrain 3y ago> Windows 11 could cause one of the biggest environment disasters in recent computer industry history. That would be the case if there was vendor lockdown on the hardware to only ever support Windows. Thankfully, for most people, this isn’t the case and Linux exists.
- dist-epoch 3y agoIt's delusional to think that people will move to Linux. Not calling you out specifically, but this common refrain "move to Linux" will not happen on aggregate. Just as it didn't happen until now.
- Silhouette 3y agoIt happened for some of us. The arrival of Windows 10 coincided with most of the essential business software we need having at least a web-based version if not being entirely online. That was enough to drop Windows after 7 and move to Linux for our next generation. As always the availability and quality of the required software to run on your chosen OS is what really matters. Luckily we're in development where the tools on Linux are easily comparable to and frequently better than the tools on Windows. I doubt people working in some of the other creative industries would say the same though. It's a shame the free and open nature of Linux is also its Achilles heel because it creates a reputation - which is at least partly justified - that trying to sell commercial Linux applications isn't likely to work out. If we look at what happened after Adobe went subscription-only with Creative Suite/Cloud we see that several credible competitors arrived within a few years on Windows and macOS but none of them has been ported to Linux. Even relatively small and fast-moving commercial software companies don't think there are enough potential paying customers on Linux to justify the investment. That's a huge problem for greater adoption because it creates a chicken-and-egg paradox. Maybe a more free and open business model like crowdsourcing could at least cover some of the bigger gaps like graphics software. But if anything some of the recent developments in Linux - like the X/Wayland fragmentation - might be making it a harder target for GUI applications that would have the necessary mass market appeal to shift users in larger numbers and not just attract the techies.
- aksss 3y agoWindows 11 was tough in the beginning - the loss of customization points compared to 10, specifically the start menu, but they slowly started adding that stuff back in (folders, adjustable real estate for pinned apps) after we cried loudly and long enough. On the whole I prefer Windows 11 current build over Win 10. The one thing that still seems like massive technical debt is the control panel vs. settings. Clearly that must be harder to clean up than you’d think.
- jinushaun 3y agoMy guess is that settings panel is a case of no one knows how the old code works due to decades of backwards compatibility, so it’s been a slow port to new code.
- Silhouette 3y agoThe tragedy here is that there's nothing particularly wrong with Windows 11. Unless you give a hoot about keeping control of your own equipment and the consequent effects on security, privacy, reliability, and usability?
- npteljes 3y agoWin 12 is neither of what the title posits. It's just the next branded bundle of the same Windows rolling release that they are doing since they decided to run with the NT kernel and make that the main one. The rest of it is just fluff, branding, business deals, PR and things like that.