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More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou This should be common knowledge for native English speakers. It's hard to read

More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou This should be common knowledge for native English speakers. It's hard to read Shakespeare without knowing this. But for non-native speaker, this would be mysterious.

baxtr 3y ago
According to the article “you” was formal and “thou” informal.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  from the spelling i assume they were pronounced the same, but hopefully they both rhymed with thou.
  - o11c 3y ago
    Note that "you" is actually the object form, so the table is unfortunately not arranged the obvious way: single plural used in contexts of thou ye nominative (subject), vocative (preceded by the word "O"). For the singular, this implies that the relevant verb takes the "-[e]st" suffix. thee you all object forms (direct object, indirect object, object of preposition) thy your possessive determiner, before consonant sounds - thy will, thy God thine your possessive determiner, before vowel sounds (including 'h') - thine enemy, thine head thine yours possessive pronoun - not my will but thine, all that I have is thine (the last distinction used to by used for my/mine, and is still used for a/an)
- zirgs 3y ago
  Yes - and this is how it is in a lot of other Indo-European languages too.
6stringmerc 3y ago
[flagged]
- t8sr 3y ago
  Not everything is about the only thing that’s been on _your_ mind lately. Other stuff exists, and it doesn’t all have to fit a single narrative.
tibbydudeza 3y ago
Or King James Bible - some Christians stick to the original translation (1611).
- NewsyHacker 3y ago
  Why do you think the KJV is the "original translation"? As far as English translations of Scripture go, it was preceded by the Wycliffe Bible. And a translation of the Gospels was produced in the Old English era.
  - biorach 3y ago
    While technically true this is somewhat pedantic, the KJV was the first vernacular translation to be widely available in the English speaking world and is a hugely influential text for literary English, so just take "original" here in a metaphoric sense.
- o11c 3y ago
  Everybody uses the 1769 update actually.
majormajor 3y ago
"In the 17th century, thou fell into disuse in the standard language" Why would that need to be common knowledge 3-400 years later then?
- flappyeagle 3y ago
  Because there are many still-popular and important literary works like those of Shakespeare and the King James Bible which benefit from understanding the distinction.
  - panarky 3y ago
    For most of my life I've quietly despised the people in the church of my youth for switching to thee/thou/thy in public prayers. I always thought this was grandstanding performance of piety, or cargo cult mumbo jumbo, or both. It just seemed so silly to think that God only understands archaic English. Now it turns out these people I despised were only being respectful, and trying to use the formal forms? However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" were actually the informal forms of "you" in 17th century English, now I'm really confused why they suddenly started talking this way the moment they crossed the threshold of the church.
    - trealira 3y ago
      > However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" are the informal forms of "you", now I'm really confused why they do this. Unnecessary reverence of the King James Bible translation, probably.
    - janandonly 3y ago
      As far as I know, you actually is the formal, originally plural version (ye/you/your) and thou was the informal version (thou/thee/thy/thine). Over time, thou became impolitely informal and is now no longer used, though interestingly enough, nowadays it might even be perceived as more formal than you because it's archaic and survives almost exclusively in liturgical language.
    - dwheeler 3y ago
timeon 3y ago
> But for non-native speaker, this would be mysterious. As non-native speaker I had learned early that 'you' so I thought that there was probably some other form no longer used.

baxtr 3y ago

According to the article “you” was formal and “thou” informal.

fsckboy 3y ago
from the spelling i assume they were pronounced the same, but hopefully they both rhymed with thou.
- o11c 3y ago
  Note that "you" is actually the object form, so the table is unfortunately not arranged the obvious way: single plural used in contexts of thou ye nominative (subject), vocative (preceded by the word "O"). For the singular, this implies that the relevant verb takes the "-[e]st" suffix. thee you all object forms (direct object, indirect object, object of preposition) thy your possessive determiner, before consonant sounds - thy will, thy God thine your possessive determiner, before vowel sounds (including 'h') - thine enemy, thine head thine yours possessive pronoun - not my will but thine, all that I have is thine (the last distinction used to by used for my/mine, and is still used for a/an)
zirgs 3y ago
Yes - and this is how it is in a lot of other Indo-European languages too.

6stringmerc 3y ago

[flagged]

t8sr 3y ago
Not everything is about the only thing that’s been on _your_ mind lately. Other stuff exists, and it doesn’t all have to fit a single narrative.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

Or King James Bible - some Christians stick to the original translation (1611).

NewsyHacker 3y ago
Why do you think the KJV is the "original translation"? As far as English translations of Scripture go, it was preceded by the Wycliffe Bible. And a translation of the Gospels was produced in the Old English era.
- biorach 3y ago
  While technically true this is somewhat pedantic, the KJV was the first vernacular translation to be widely available in the English speaking world and is a hugely influential text for literary English, so just take "original" here in a metaphoric sense.
o11c 3y ago
Everybody uses the 1769 update actually.

majormajor 3y ago

"In the 17th century, thou fell into disuse in the standard language" Why would that need to be common knowledge 3-400 years later then?

flappyeagle 3y ago
Because there are many still-popular and important literary works like those of Shakespeare and the King James Bible which benefit from understanding the distinction.
- panarky 3y ago
  For most of my life I've quietly despised the people in the church of my youth for switching to thee/thou/thy in public prayers. I always thought this was grandstanding performance of piety, or cargo cult mumbo jumbo, or both. It just seemed so silly to think that God only understands archaic English. Now it turns out these people I despised were only being respectful, and trying to use the formal forms? However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" were actually the informal forms of "you" in 17th century English, now I'm really confused why they suddenly started talking this way the moment they crossed the threshold of the church.
  - trealira 3y ago
    > However, since it seems that "thee" and "thou" are the informal forms of "you", now I'm really confused why they do this. Unnecessary reverence of the King James Bible translation, probably.
  - janandonly 3y ago
    As far as I know, you actually is the formal, originally plural version (ye/you/your) and thou was the informal version (thou/thee/thy/thine). Over time, thou became impolitely informal and is now no longer used, though interestingly enough, nowadays it might even be perceived as more formal than you because it's archaic and survives almost exclusively in liturgical language.
  - dwheeler 3y ago

timeon 3y ago

> But for non-native speaker, this would be mysterious. As non-native speaker I had learned early that 'you' so I thought that there was probably some other form no longer used.