5 ms·

Unfortunately you can't just turn on/off coal at will. Gas is easier but still takes some time. This is why renewables solve very few problems. They are not rea

by rapsey 3y ago

Unfortunately you can't just turn on/off coal at will. Gas is easier but still takes some time. This is why renewables solve very few problems. They are not really a replacement for anything.

patall 3y ago
I know facts do not matter in this debate, but both types of coal have significantly decrease since 2016. 2023 will end as a record low for decades. Source: https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=00000011111000000100000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE...
ben_w 3y ago
Nothing at grid scale is as easy as flipping a lightbulb on or off, but even so grids can and do switch coal plants on and off. At least the UK coal plants do this, so there's no reason German ones can't.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
I don’t think that’s true: https://www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/ https://www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/ Of course of we look at yearly figures getting rid of nuclear and increasing coal usage after the start of the war didn’t really help.
- jorvi 3y ago
  Greens (the world over) aggressively attacking nuclear is quintessentially that meme of the cyclist shoving a stick between his own spokes. In 25 years, when we still have to keep coal plants turned on because we couldn’t magic enough battery capacity into existence to compensate for base load, those coal plants should have giant billboards next to them with this generation’s green politicians. Thanks for tying a concrete block to our feet.
  - oezi 3y ago
    Don't talk such nonsense. The capacity additions in renewables are so enormous that by 2030 most European countries will run so much surplus during summer that we will likely not know what to do with it. TFA talks about tripling in solar in Germany until 2030! The only chance for needing any more coal in 2030 will be as a contingency if Putin is still fighting in Ukraine at that point.
    - jorvi 3y ago
      A surplus is useless without storage, and with projected battery production capacity having enough grid storage is a pie in the sky. Every western country + China will be clamoring for batteries, on top of virtually every industry. The only solution I hear from “green” people is the “future battery technology” MacGuffin.
      - oezi 3y ago
        The surplus in summer during noon isn't useless bit rather means that during morning and early evening we need less fossils. This is the main point of all of this, remember? A surplus also leads to reduced prices which enables novel uses such as charging an electric vehicle for very little money. This replaces CO2. The market will be clever to profit from the available cheap electricity.
        jorvi 3y ago
        The surplus is already so bad that residential solar gets automatically turned off en-masse to protect the grid.
  - uecker 3y ago
    Overall, economics is killing nuclear not greens.
    - retinaros 3y ago
      energy is the economy and france hast the most affordable energy in europe which would give a competitive advantage if its leader didnt plan a global european price destroying its own nuclear industry thanks to german and green party influence that hated the competition.
- patall 3y ago
  The main reason why Germany increased coal usage last year was because they exported it to France. Because their (french) nuclear plants were in maintainace or lacking cooling water. And why is everyone always looking at the momental situation? Look at yearly tendencies if you want to see what happens. Edit: since people are down voting, here is a fun fact for you. Power generated from nuclear: France 2016=415TWh; 2023(ongoing)=312TWh Germany 2016=80TWh; So optimistically for France -95TWh/a, Germany -80. Sources: https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=FR&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=0010000000000000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=FR... https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=00010000000000000000000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE...
konschubert 3y ago
Solar and Wind are absolutely pushing out Coal generation on top of Gas generation. Coal capacity is sitting idle more and more. Significantly. You can convince yourself of this by looking at these charts and comparing coal generation from week to week. https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c...

by rapsey 3y ago

Unfortunately you can't just turn on/off coal at will. Gas is easier but still takes some time. This is why renewables solve very few problems. They are not really a replacement for anything.

patall 3y ago

I know facts do not matter in this debate, but both types of coal have significantly decrease since 2016. 2023 will end as a record low for decades. Source: https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=00000011111000000100000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE...

ben_w 3y ago

Nothing at grid scale is as easy as flipping a lightbulb on or off, but even so grids can and do switch coal plants on and off. At least the UK coal plants do this, so there's no reason German ones can't.

ffgjgf1 3y ago

I don’t think that’s true: https://www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/ https://www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/ Of course of we look at yearly figures getting rid of nuclear and increasing coal usage after the start of the war didn’t really help.

jorvi 3y ago
Greens (the world over) aggressively attacking nuclear is quintessentially that meme of the cyclist shoving a stick between his own spokes. In 25 years, when we still have to keep coal plants turned on because we couldn’t magic enough battery capacity into existence to compensate for base load, those coal plants should have giant billboards next to them with this generation’s green politicians. Thanks for tying a concrete block to our feet.
- oezi 3y ago
  Don't talk such nonsense. The capacity additions in renewables are so enormous that by 2030 most European countries will run so much surplus during summer that we will likely not know what to do with it. TFA talks about tripling in solar in Germany until 2030! The only chance for needing any more coal in 2030 will be as a contingency if Putin is still fighting in Ukraine at that point.
  - jorvi 3y ago
    A surplus is useless without storage, and with projected battery production capacity having enough grid storage is a pie in the sky. Every western country + China will be clamoring for batteries, on top of virtually every industry. The only solution I hear from “green” people is the “future battery technology” MacGuffin.
    - oezi 3y ago
      The surplus in summer during noon isn't useless bit rather means that during morning and early evening we need less fossils. This is the main point of all of this, remember? A surplus also leads to reduced prices which enables novel uses such as charging an electric vehicle for very little money. This replaces CO2. The market will be clever to profit from the available cheap electricity.
      - jorvi 3y ago
        The surplus is already so bad that residential solar gets automatically turned off en-masse to protect the grid.
- uecker 3y ago
  Overall, economics is killing nuclear not greens.
  - retinaros 3y ago
    energy is the economy and france hast the most affordable energy in europe which would give a competitive advantage if its leader didnt plan a global european price destroying its own nuclear industry thanks to german and green party influence that hated the competition.
patall 3y ago
The main reason why Germany increased coal usage last year was because they exported it to France. Because their (french) nuclear plants were in maintainace or lacking cooling water. And why is everyone always looking at the momental situation? Look at yearly tendencies if you want to see what happens. Edit: since people are down voting, here is a fun fact for you. Power generated from nuclear: France 2016=415TWh; 2023(ongoing)=312TWh Germany 2016=80TWh; So optimistically for France -95TWh/a, Germany -80. Sources: https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=FR&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=0010000000000000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=FR... https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=00010000000000000000000 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE...

konschubert 3y ago

Solar and Wind are absolutely pushing out Coal generation on top of Gas generation. Coal capacity is sitting idle more and more. Significantly. You can convince yourself of this by looking at these charts and comparing coal generation from week to week. https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c...