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> “This is where our destitute end up, in these government-run facilities.” According to a 2019 report by the National Institute on Ageing at Toronto Metropolit

> “This is where our destitute end up, in these government-run facilities.” According to a 2019 report by the National Institute on Ageing at Toronto Metropolitan University, long-term care costs are expected to triple from $22 billion to $71 billion by 2050. “It will be the equivalent of the modern-day Victorian poor house for our old,” I would love to hear why old ppl don't choose to voluntarily end their life. What good is a life spent in 'poor house for the old' . seems kind of an obvious strategy to end your life but maybe will to live trumps all commonsense even in old age?

dvngnt_ 3y ago
why should they? old people can live too
automatic6131 3y ago
>I would love to hear why old ppl don't choose to voluntarily end their life. 1) It's physically and psychologically hard to end your own life 2) You aren't going to feel old, you'll just feel like you do now, but with an achey body and some brainfog. 3) A society that encourages old people to shuffle off this mortal coil is probably a bad one
- voisin 3y ago
  > 3) A society that encourages old people to shuffle off this mortal coil is probably a bad one Why do you think this?
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. And doing that based on a stat damns our judgment. Somewhere about here it becomes apparent that the value of our judgment is tied to the value we place on others.
    - apwell23 3y ago
      > I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. Maybe its just a social taboo and not a real line. most old ppl caring for elderly fulltime want their parents to be dead though. I've seen this personally in family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking. I could sense their hearts jumping with joy and relief when their parents finally passed away.
      - j4yav 3y ago
        Is this an Effective Altruism thing, or some other Silicon Valley trend? The amount of times I've seen it suggested that non-productive members or society should be euthanized on HN is so much higher than I would have ever thought it would be. And people always say something similar how it's just a taboo, but if you think rationally you'd naturally off everyone who isn't making money. I'm always curious how they arrive at that line of thinking.
      - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
        >> I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. > Maybe its just a social taboo and not a real line. I disagree. In any agecide scenario, adults won't consent and would be murdered. Murder is a bright line. Advocating the murder of people we love is an even broader, brighter line. Crossing that devastates human bonds.
      - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
        > family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking. The burden of caring for aged parents is heavier now. A primary reason is the absence of the extended families that we're evolved to live in. Modern pressures to scatter families means that a 12 person burden is being born by 1 or 2. Similarly, raising children is more difficult than it was historically. Murdering our burdens may be an expedient solution but I feel there are less catastrophic ways out of this.
j4yav 3y ago
Just because nobody else seems to want them doesn't mean they should have to kill themselves.
- voisin 3y ago
  OP says “voluntarily”. Nobody has to kill themselves, but it seems like a lot of older people aren’t particularly happy in the last few years of their lives, kept alive by increasing drugs and machines, sometimes the mind long gone. Seems awful to extend life beyond the point of enjoyment, and an option to end things seems more humane than forcing people to continue.
  - j4yav 3y ago
    Maybe? It sounded to me like it was in the context of them being a financial burden, like you should want to off yourself once you become expensive for society, or it's a bad strategy to keep existing if you're going to be poor or something.
simbolit 3y ago
In canada physician-assisted suicide is legal, basically everywhere else it is not.
woodruffw 3y ago
For one, there are lots of old people who aren't living with assisted or long-term care. For another, everyone's quality of life metrics are different: there are a lot of people who would be content to live through decades of poor health, provided they can otherwise do things that matter to them (see their relatives, read books, etc.). Voluntary suicide probably should be an option for those who don't want to continue their lives. But it doesn't evaporate the underlying problem, since many people (very reasonably) want to continue their lives through infirmity.
abledon 3y ago
>> I would love to hear why old ppl don't choose to voluntarily end their life. What good is a life spent in 'poor house for the old' . The old age is considered prime meditation time in the shaolin monasteries. Even if you live in poor conditions, exploring the realms of your subconcious in meditation is seen as an end goal. See Jhana stages to achieve in meditation.
- apwell23 3y ago
  We should as a society encourage and normalize assisted suicide in old age when they aren't happy anymore. Why suffer everyday with no chance of it ever getting better just do some mediation nonsense.
myvoiceismypass 3y ago
Christians consider that a sin and thus a barrier to "heaven" in the afterlife. I don't believe this, myself, and can see myself considering this in a few decades. I'm in my 40s now, hopefully I have maybe two decades of good-ish living left. After seeing shit like Alzheimers destroy people I loved - I don't want to go through that myself or burden other loved ones.

dvngnt_ 3y ago

why should they? old people can live too

automatic6131 3y ago

>I would love to hear why old ppl don't choose to voluntarily end their life. 1) It's physically and psychologically hard to end your own life 2) You aren't going to feel old, you'll just feel like you do now, but with an achey body and some brainfog. 3) A society that encourages old people to shuffle off this mortal coil is probably a bad one

voisin 3y ago
> 3) A society that encourages old people to shuffle off this mortal coil is probably a bad one Why do you think this?
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. And doing that based on a stat damns our judgment. Somewhere about here it becomes apparent that the value of our judgment is tied to the value we place on others.
  - apwell23 3y ago
    > I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. Maybe its just a social taboo and not a real line. most old ppl caring for elderly fulltime want their parents to be dead though. I've seen this personally in family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking. I could sense their hearts jumping with joy and relief when their parents finally passed away.
    - j4yav 3y ago
      Is this an Effective Altruism thing, or some other Silicon Valley trend? The amount of times I've seen it suggested that non-productive members or society should be euthanized on HN is so much higher than I would have ever thought it would be. And people always say something similar how it's just a taboo, but if you think rationally you'd naturally off everyone who isn't making money. I'm always curious how they arrive at that line of thinking.
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      >> I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. > Maybe its just a social taboo and not a real line. I disagree. In any agecide scenario, adults won't consent and would be murdered. Murder is a bright line. Advocating the murder of people we love is an even broader, brighter line. Crossing that devastates human bonds.
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      > family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking. The burden of caring for aged parents is heavier now. A primary reason is the absence of the extended families that we're evolved to live in. Modern pressures to scatter families means that a 12 person burden is being born by 1 or 2. Similarly, raising children is more difficult than it was historically. Murdering our burdens may be an expedient solution but I feel there are less catastrophic ways out of this.

j4yav 3y ago

Just because nobody else seems to want them doesn't mean they should have to kill themselves.

voisin 3y ago
OP says “voluntarily”. Nobody has to kill themselves, but it seems like a lot of older people aren’t particularly happy in the last few years of their lives, kept alive by increasing drugs and machines, sometimes the mind long gone. Seems awful to extend life beyond the point of enjoyment, and an option to end things seems more humane than forcing people to continue.
- j4yav 3y ago
  Maybe? It sounded to me like it was in the context of them being a financial burden, like you should want to off yourself once you become expensive for society, or it's a bad strategy to keep existing if you're going to be poor or something.

simbolit 3y ago

In canada physician-assisted suicide is legal, basically everywhere else it is not.

woodruffw 3y ago

For one, there are lots of old people who aren't living with assisted or long-term care. For another, everyone's quality of life metrics are different: there are a lot of people who would be content to live through decades of poor health, provided they can otherwise do things that matter to them (see their relatives, read books, etc.). Voluntary suicide probably should be an option for those who don't want to continue their lives. But it doesn't evaporate the underlying problem, since many people (very reasonably) want to continue their lives through infirmity.

abledon 3y ago

>> I would love to hear why old ppl don't choose to voluntarily end their life. What good is a life spent in 'poor house for the old' . The old age is considered prime meditation time in the shaolin monasteries. Even if you live in poor conditions, exploring the realms of your subconcious in meditation is seen as an end goal. See Jhana stages to achieve in meditation.

apwell23 3y ago
We should as a society encourage and normalize assisted suicide in old age when they aren't happy anymore. Why suffer everyday with no chance of it ever getting better just do some mediation nonsense.

myvoiceismypass 3y ago

Christians consider that a sin and thus a barrier to "heaven" in the afterlife. I don't believe this, myself, and can see myself considering this in a few decades. I'm in my 40s now, hopefully I have maybe two decades of good-ish living left. After seeing shit like Alzheimers destroy people I loved - I don't want to go through that myself or burden other loved ones.