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Is anyone else recently getting the idea that these doomers are wishing for a collapse, same as preppers, only on the other side of the political spectrum? I’m

Is anyone else recently getting the idea that these doomers are wishing for a collapse, same as preppers, only on the other side of the political spectrum? I’m not qualified to speculate on the psychological underpinnings of such behavior, but I do feel there is a sense of yearning in these kinds of “if not climate change, then pollution, or A.I., etc.” articles.

jl6 3y ago
They have invested so much of their time and personality into doomism that they’re willing to work for doom just so they can say they were right.
losteric 3y ago
"wish" in what sense? Like wishing to get in to Hogwarts? Or like how some cancer patients wish for their end?
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  They want to smugly prove their others that I’m right. Seems a commonality among any kind of end-of-times cultists, they’ll try to befriend you and woo you into being on their side. That their bunker was a sane investment, that you should sell all your assets and invest in silver or sheep or small arms. That their calculations are a bit off, that it’ll actually be next Fall not this Spring. But, above all else, that I’m right and you can be too if you just believe like I do. Except I don’t believe, I know. Oh, you won’t know like I know? You’re just another sheep, another one of them.
  - formlessentity 3y ago
    The bunker may not pay out like call options but still a reasonable investment, especially if it has a bowling alley. Yes they’re probably trying to sell you gold bars for a 20% cut. But they’re no less guilty than the realtor trying to sell you a high rise condo with a cold bath.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
Nothing recent about it. Deathwish politics is at least as old as the mid 1950's when impending nuclear Armageddon was on the cards. Out of that came a sect of American evangelical fundamentalists who believe in "The Rapture". Many prominent US political figures were and remain associated with it. Right now many of these types are rubbing their hands with glee over the middle-East conflict, hoping it will escalate as prophesied.
- mypastself 3y ago
  I’d lump that group in with preppers, given their conservative political leanings. These seem to hew closer to New Age cults that rose to prominence in the ‘60s and ‘70, except with a more secular bent.
  - nickpp 3y ago
    Aren’t they mostly coming from the lest though? Preppers mostly come from the political right, I believe.
- geysersam 3y ago
  Who's having deathwish? Status quo politicians or those who realize the problems we're facing. I'd call that lifewish
  - amazingman 3y ago
    > Who's having deathwish? Status quo politicians or those who realize the problems we're facing A subset of the latter. There are those who begin with the premise that the world is going to hell and then seek out (and amplify) any evidence they find that resonates with their bias. Doomers, if you will. It's not even that difficult to identify these folks, but as soon as one does the retort is invariably some form of "you have your head in the sand".
    - geysersam 3y ago
      What do you mean by "begin with the premise that the world is going to hell"? Can you name a person who does that? In the context of this particular blog post I think the authors argue quite coherently in favor of their perspective, whether you think it right or not, it's hardly "beginning from the premise".
formlessentity 3y ago
I accept financial collapse, nuclear war and other practical doomerism hypotheses to be concerned about, but I’m putting “sustainability” arguments in with supervolcano. Alien invasion is up right now. And yeah I can attest that there is a certain appeal. Psychologically it’s that post apocalypse survival brings purpose to an otherwise easy, almost pointless existence, I think this is widely understood no? I will also say that post apocalypse survival is a simple game to play, dig a hole and live in it, I could buy an entire lifetime of gaseous oxygen and bury it in the ground with me at current prices. The level up is to ensure the survival of one’s local community. Master level is Elon Musk style interplanetary insurance.
slibhb 3y ago
Absolutely. They hate technology and modernity and want to live as subsistence farmers, a lifestyle they romanticize endlessly (see the part about "growing your own food," "learning to fix things," etc). So many people fantasize about moving to a farm in the country. Collapse-advocates want events to force them (and everyone) to make that change. A collapse is ideal because they will be forced to do something they fantasize about and not miss out on anything new that modernity creates (because modernity will be gone).
- losteric 3y ago
  > They hate technology and modernity and want to live as subsistence farmers, a lifestyle they romanticize endlessly "They"? You are overgeneralizing a group you are not a member of. What you're describing covers exactly zero of the "doomers" I know - most are just depressed PhD biologists or polymath economists modeling a tragic collapse. Look up the revised World3 models, IPCC's BAU scenarios, go review Hot Topic and the critiques since then, check out the Existential Climate Risks survey of experts... talking about the risks of collapse, and fearing it happening, is quite rational. Casting the group as expecting some absurd "population collapse without civilization collapse", or cheering on a massive societal regression, is a clear signal your sample set is biased.
  - slibhb 3y ago
    I'm responding to the linked article and the broad "collapse community" not to your claimed "depressed friends with PhDs". Anyway, the vast majority of climate scientists and economists don't think that civilization will collapse. Maybe they aren't "polymathic" enough for you. Even if they entertain the possiblity of collapse, they aren't certain about it (again, compare to the linked article). At any rate, the idea that scientists can model the collapse of civilization is silly. We can't model the market and civilization is much more complex. > Casting the group as expecting some absurd "population collapse without civilization collapse", or cheering on a massive societal regression, is a clear signal your sample set is biased. I don't know what the first part of this means. There absolutely is a "collapse community," well represented by the linked article and elsewhere on the internet, and I think it's very clear that they eagerly await the collapse for transparent psychological reasons.
lebean 3y ago
I think some, maybe even many or even most doomers just want to believe we're all doomed because it gives them an out for never trying to fully self-actualize or try to become the most successful version of themselves, whatever it may be. I never met a doomer with high self-esteem.
Vektorceraptor 3y ago
Yes, I secretly have such a wish. I think humanity has reached a point where everything seems to be falling apart. I would rather see the phoenix burn down and a new one rise from its ashes.
Wurdan 3y ago
A line in a Kurzgesagt video ( https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU ) a while back caught my attention. “Every generation assumes they’re important enough to witness the apocalypse.” I don’t think that’s the only factor in people wishing for collapse, but I think it’s one of them.
illiac786 3y ago
Well if you call them doomers, it does feel like you have a small bias... but I agree many people that state the world will end within their expected lifespan actually like it. On the other end you have zero proof that you are not the one in denial right now. I personally am probably a doomer as you call it, I really think it will go downhill for at least a century, probably more. Not sure if we'll go back to middle age or stone age. The planet will survive, humans will survive, but it won't be pretty. I don't think we can manage to achieve real net zero CO2 before a very long while (many decades). It would simply require humans to trust each other and sacrifice in a scale that has never happened before. I have little reasons to believe this can happen, definitely not fast enough. And co2 is just one problem.

jl6 3y ago

They have invested so much of their time and personality into doomism that they’re willing to work for doom just so they can say they were right.

losteric 3y ago

"wish" in what sense? Like wishing to get in to Hogwarts? Or like how some cancer patients wish for their end?

wizerdrobe 3y ago
They want to smugly prove their others that I’m right. Seems a commonality among any kind of end-of-times cultists, they’ll try to befriend you and woo you into being on their side. That their bunker was a sane investment, that you should sell all your assets and invest in silver or sheep or small arms. That their calculations are a bit off, that it’ll actually be next Fall not this Spring. But, above all else, that I’m right and you can be too if you just believe like I do. Except I don’t believe, I know. Oh, you won’t know like I know? You’re just another sheep, another one of them.
- formlessentity 3y ago
  The bunker may not pay out like call options but still a reasonable investment, especially if it has a bowling alley. Yes they’re probably trying to sell you gold bars for a 20% cut. But they’re no less guilty than the realtor trying to sell you a high rise condo with a cold bath.

nonrandomstring 3y ago

Nothing recent about it. Deathwish politics is at least as old as the mid 1950's when impending nuclear Armageddon was on the cards. Out of that came a sect of American evangelical fundamentalists who believe in "The Rapture". Many prominent US political figures were and remain associated with it. Right now many of these types are rubbing their hands with glee over the middle-East conflict, hoping it will escalate as prophesied.

mypastself 3y ago
I’d lump that group in with preppers, given their conservative political leanings. These seem to hew closer to New Age cults that rose to prominence in the ‘60s and ‘70, except with a more secular bent.
- nickpp 3y ago
  Aren’t they mostly coming from the lest though? Preppers mostly come from the political right, I believe.
geysersam 3y ago
Who's having deathwish? Status quo politicians or those who realize the problems we're facing. I'd call that lifewish
- amazingman 3y ago
  > Who's having deathwish? Status quo politicians or those who realize the problems we're facing A subset of the latter. There are those who begin with the premise that the world is going to hell and then seek out (and amplify) any evidence they find that resonates with their bias. Doomers, if you will. It's not even that difficult to identify these folks, but as soon as one does the retort is invariably some form of "you have your head in the sand".
  - geysersam 3y ago
    What do you mean by "begin with the premise that the world is going to hell"? Can you name a person who does that? In the context of this particular blog post I think the authors argue quite coherently in favor of their perspective, whether you think it right or not, it's hardly "beginning from the premise".

formlessentity 3y ago

I accept financial collapse, nuclear war and other practical doomerism hypotheses to be concerned about, but I’m putting “sustainability” arguments in with supervolcano. Alien invasion is up right now. And yeah I can attest that there is a certain appeal. Psychologically it’s that post apocalypse survival brings purpose to an otherwise easy, almost pointless existence, I think this is widely understood no? I will also say that post apocalypse survival is a simple game to play, dig a hole and live in it, I could buy an entire lifetime of gaseous oxygen and bury it in the ground with me at current prices. The level up is to ensure the survival of one’s local community. Master level is Elon Musk style interplanetary insurance.

slibhb 3y ago

Absolutely. They hate technology and modernity and want to live as subsistence farmers, a lifestyle they romanticize endlessly (see the part about "growing your own food," "learning to fix things," etc). So many people fantasize about moving to a farm in the country. Collapse-advocates want events to force them (and everyone) to make that change. A collapse is ideal because they will be forced to do something they fantasize about and not miss out on anything new that modernity creates (because modernity will be gone).

losteric 3y ago
> They hate technology and modernity and want to live as subsistence farmers, a lifestyle they romanticize endlessly "They"? You are overgeneralizing a group you are not a member of. What you're describing covers exactly zero of the "doomers" I know - most are just depressed PhD biologists or polymath economists modeling a tragic collapse. Look up the revised World3 models, IPCC's BAU scenarios, go review Hot Topic and the critiques since then, check out the Existential Climate Risks survey of experts... talking about the risks of collapse, and fearing it happening, is quite rational. Casting the group as expecting some absurd "population collapse without civilization collapse", or cheering on a massive societal regression, is a clear signal your sample set is biased.
- slibhb 3y ago
  I'm responding to the linked article and the broad "collapse community" not to your claimed "depressed friends with PhDs". Anyway, the vast majority of climate scientists and economists don't think that civilization will collapse. Maybe they aren't "polymathic" enough for you. Even if they entertain the possiblity of collapse, they aren't certain about it (again, compare to the linked article). At any rate, the idea that scientists can model the collapse of civilization is silly. We can't model the market and civilization is much more complex. > Casting the group as expecting some absurd "population collapse without civilization collapse", or cheering on a massive societal regression, is a clear signal your sample set is biased. I don't know what the first part of this means. There absolutely is a "collapse community," well represented by the linked article and elsewhere on the internet, and I think it's very clear that they eagerly await the collapse for transparent psychological reasons.

lebean 3y ago

I think some, maybe even many or even most doomers just want to believe we're all doomed because it gives them an out for never trying to fully self-actualize or try to become the most successful version of themselves, whatever it may be. I never met a doomer with high self-esteem.

Vektorceraptor 3y ago

Yes, I secretly have such a wish. I think humanity has reached a point where everything seems to be falling apart. I would rather see the phoenix burn down and a new one rise from its ashes.

Wurdan 3y ago

A line in a Kurzgesagt video ( https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU ) a while back caught my attention. “Every generation assumes they’re important enough to witness the apocalypse.” I don’t think that’s the only factor in people wishing for collapse, but I think it’s one of them.

illiac786 3y ago

Well if you call them doomers, it does feel like you have a small bias... but I agree many people that state the world will end within their expected lifespan actually like it. On the other end you have zero proof that you are not the one in denial right now. I personally am probably a doomer as you call it, I really think it will go downhill for at least a century, probably more. Not sure if we'll go back to middle age or stone age. The planet will survive, humans will survive, but it won't be pretty. I don't think we can manage to achieve real net zero CO2 before a very long while (many decades). It would simply require humans to trust each other and sacrifice in a scale that has never happened before. I have little reasons to believe this can happen, definitely not fast enough. And co2 is just one problem.