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As one of the only people who curate/create datasets tailor made for persuasion, I must self-plug on this one: https://paperswithcode.com/paper/debatesum-a-larg

As one of the only people who curate/create datasets tailor made for persuasion, I must self-plug on this one: https://paperswithcode.com/paper/debatesum-a-large-scale-argument-mining-and https://paperswithcode.com/paper/debatesum-a-large-scale-arg... We have a follow up which is under review at a top conference but the dataset itself is hosted and it's a 40x improvement on DebateSum: https://huggingface.co/datasets/Yusuf5/OpenCaselist https://huggingface.co/datasets/Yusuf5/OpenCaselist Preprint of that paper is available upon request to anyone who wants it - but of course it will change heavily between preprint and whenever the oh-so-coveted conference acceptance comes.

viraptor 3y ago
> compiled by competitors within the National Speech and Debate Association Does this actually map to the real world persuasion? The techniques used in competitive debates seem pretty artificial. If you tried to quickly address every point someone raised and flood them with your own talking points, they would likely think you're weird and obnoxious. The debates have specific scoring and the environment of "we're stuck here with each other", while the real effective persuasion may be closer to "this is a nice tie you're wearing, I'll get you a beer, but let's avoid X, he's a weirdo". Or "you're better than Xs who do Y". Looking at the dataset that kind of emotional approach doesn't exist there, right? Or am I missing something?
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  I envision it to be used by a production debating system in an analogous way to how policy debate should operate, which is to say this evidence being used as a "mostly factual" source of real information to cite as evidence alongside an LLMs current persuasion abilities. There's a startup already that's trying to do this, and they're working with us/using our dataset: https://chat.arguflow.ai/ https://chat.arguflow.ai/ The dataset itself certainly has tags that are emotional or evidence that's citing like musical lyrics. Kritikal debaters have thought of nearly every strange argument you can imagine. The fact that you can make en even better progressive policy debater with it today than the speed talking adderal/coke addicts doing it at the highest levels of NDT/CEDA is just a bonus. I'm glad I've out of the activity long enough to agree that spreading/speed talking is stupid, but when you're deep in that world - the elitism associated with it is seductive.

viraptor 3y ago

> compiled by competitors within the National Speech and Debate Association Does this actually map to the real world persuasion? The techniques used in competitive debates seem pretty artificial. If you tried to quickly address every point someone raised and flood them with your own talking points, they would likely think you're weird and obnoxious. The debates have specific scoring and the environment of "we're stuck here with each other", while the real effective persuasion may be closer to "this is a nice tie you're wearing, I'll get you a beer, but let's avoid X, he's a weirdo". Or "you're better than Xs who do Y". Looking at the dataset that kind of emotional approach doesn't exist there, right? Or am I missing something?

Der_Einzige 3y ago
I envision it to be used by a production debating system in an analogous way to how policy debate should operate, which is to say this evidence being used as a "mostly factual" source of real information to cite as evidence alongside an LLMs current persuasion abilities. There's a startup already that's trying to do this, and they're working with us/using our dataset: https://chat.arguflow.ai/ https://chat.arguflow.ai/ The dataset itself certainly has tags that are emotional or evidence that's citing like musical lyrics. Kritikal debaters have thought of nearly every strange argument you can imagine. The fact that you can make en even better progressive policy debater with it today than the speed talking adderal/coke addicts doing it at the highest levels of NDT/CEDA is just a bonus. I'm glad I've out of the activity long enough to agree that spreading/speed talking is stupid, but when you're deep in that world - the elitism associated with it is seductive.