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The transistor or vaccine argument is a poor argument because no one during Victorian era was able to purchase that. One looks instead relative to other countr

by j7ake 3y ago

The transistor or vaccine argument is a poor argument because no one during Victorian era was able to purchase that. One looks instead relative to other countries in the same time frame, to ask if a country is richer or poorer. In this case, England was an absolute super power at the height of having India as a colony. They were much richer than the Irish, Finns, and Swiss when India was part of the English empire. Moreover, Englands wealth was directly increased by owning major colonies around the world. You cannot eat gold, but you can reliably exchange it for goods and services.

astrange 3y ago
> The transistor or vaccine argument is a poor argument because no one during Victorian era was able to purchase that. Yes, in other words they were all miserably poor and nothing they invented was capable of changing that. If you can't purchase a $1 2023 product with your colony that's an enormous opportunity cost that could've been spent staying home and inventing it. > In this case, England was an absolute super power at the height of having India as a colony. And they were all poorer than the poorest modern person alive. > You cannot eat gold, but you can reliably exchange it for goods and services. If you discover more gold you can't reliably exchange it; you may just get inflation because its value relies on there being a fixed amount of it. England got a little rich through trade networks, but it's the ability to trade that makes you rich, and notably going to another country and taking all their gold and leaving is not trading with them and doesn't develop your economy. Funny enough, the reason Scotland is part of the UK is that they bankrupted themselves doing colonialism and sold themselves to England. And now neither of them are richer than countries that never tried it.
- j7ake 3y ago
  Not being able to buy a $1 2023 product does not mean the poorest of the poor in 2023 would be richer than the richest in olden times. Rockefeller and Carnegie were (and still is) absolutely richer than most people today even though they were not able to buy a transistor with their wealth at the time. Because what money can buy is a high dimensional problem, and focusing on goods that didn’t exist back then is myopic and ignores that money can be used to establish endowments. The funds from Rockefeller (resource extraction), Carnegie (steel), or from English army (plundering) directly contributed to the large endowments of many of the wealthiest research institutes today. So colonialism, plundering, and resource extraction is unambiguously profitable by increasing absolute wealth (by taking goods) and increasing innovative activity (by funding institutes).
  - astrange 3y ago
    > The funds from Rockefeller (resource extraction), Carnegie (steel), or from English army (plundering) directly contributed to the large endowments of many of the wealthiest research institutes today. Spain, Portugal, Mongolia and Russia should have a lot of them then. And Korea, Switzerland and Germany shouldn't, as none of them were big colonizers. "Endowments" meaning successful very long running investments, most of all requires something to invest in, which is economic development. Harvard doesn't sit on a big pile of gold. > So colonialism, plundering, and resource extraction is unambiguously profitable by increasing absolute wealth (by taking goods) Taking something doesn't increase absolute wealth… However, it may not really be taking it, because we also don't observe that the colonized countries are poorer due to losing resources sometime before 1900. Rather, having a lot of natural resources is usually bad for your development ("resource curse") but some countries like Australia and Norway have avoided it through good institutions.

by j7ake 3y ago

astrange 3y ago

> The transistor or vaccine argument is a poor argument because no one during Victorian era was able to purchase that. Yes, in other words they were all miserably poor and nothing they invented was capable of changing that. If you can't purchase a $1 2023 product with your colony that's an enormous opportunity cost that could've been spent staying home and inventing it. > In this case, England was an absolute super power at the height of having India as a colony. And they were all poorer than the poorest modern person alive. > You cannot eat gold, but you can reliably exchange it for goods and services. If you discover more gold you can't reliably exchange it; you may just get inflation because its value relies on there being a fixed amount of it. England got a little rich through trade networks, but it's the ability to trade that makes you rich, and notably going to another country and taking all their gold and leaving is not trading with them and doesn't develop your economy. Funny enough, the reason Scotland is part of the UK is that they bankrupted themselves doing colonialism and sold themselves to England. And now neither of them are richer than countries that never tried it.

j7ake 3y ago
Not being able to buy a $1 2023 product does not mean the poorest of the poor in 2023 would be richer than the richest in olden times. Rockefeller and Carnegie were (and still is) absolutely richer than most people today even though they were not able to buy a transistor with their wealth at the time. Because what money can buy is a high dimensional problem, and focusing on goods that didn’t exist back then is myopic and ignores that money can be used to establish endowments. The funds from Rockefeller (resource extraction), Carnegie (steel), or from English army (plundering) directly contributed to the large endowments of many of the wealthiest research institutes today. So colonialism, plundering, and resource extraction is unambiguously profitable by increasing absolute wealth (by taking goods) and increasing innovative activity (by funding institutes).
- astrange 3y ago
  > The funds from Rockefeller (resource extraction), Carnegie (steel), or from English army (plundering) directly contributed to the large endowments of many of the wealthiest research institutes today. Spain, Portugal, Mongolia and Russia should have a lot of them then. And Korea, Switzerland and Germany shouldn't, as none of them were big colonizers. "Endowments" meaning successful very long running investments, most of all requires something to invest in, which is economic development. Harvard doesn't sit on a big pile of gold. > So colonialism, plundering, and resource extraction is unambiguously profitable by increasing absolute wealth (by taking goods) Taking something doesn't increase absolute wealth… However, it may not really be taking it, because we also don't observe that the colonized countries are poorer due to losing resources sometime before 1900. Rather, having a lot of natural resources is usually bad for your development ("resource curse") but some countries like Australia and Norway have avoided it through good institutions.