6 ms·

Privacy is a right. Why do I need random people scrutinizing everything I do?

by brigadier132 3y ago

gavinhoward 3y ago
When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe, I think they have a right to transparency.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  > When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe That's what the justice system is for, not the mob.
  - petee 3y ago
    Rights for me but not for thee
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      What? Anyone can create an LLC if they want to, it's $100 a year if you want to do it completely online (less if you want to deal with more paperwork). I just sell things over the internet and don't want the entire planet to know who I am because of it.
      - gavinhoward 3y ago
        Your customers have a right to know who you are. Otherwise, if you deliver shoddy stuff, they could try to sue, you shut the LLC down, and they're left without justice, even with the justice system.
        brigadier132 3y ago
        > Your customers have a right to know who you are No they do not. Not everything is a right because of feelings. > if you deliver shoddy stuff, they could try to sue, you shut the LLC down This is way oversimplified. Delivering a "shoddy product" is not illegal and it's not the responsibility of victims to deliver justice, it's the responsibility of the government. If a victim wants justice they should go to a court and a court will have access to information on who owns a business. > and they're left without justice Ok, so you actually are advocating for vigilante and mob justice.
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        No, I am saying that because they would not know who you are, they could not bring a civil case, and law enforcement would not get involved because it is not a criminal case since it is not illegal. But if it was public, they would know who you are and could bring a civil case and go through the justice system. > This is way oversimplified. Delivering a "shoddy product" is not illegal and it's not the responsibility of victims to deliver justice, it's the responsibility of the government. If a victim wants justice they should go to a court and a court will have access to information on who owns a business. Not necessarily. And in a civil case, it is unfortunately the responsibility of the victim to set the wheels of justice in motion through the justice system. I have no idea why you think I am in favor of mob justice when I am at risk of it too as an LLC owner. > No they do not. Not everything is a right because of feelings. This is what the commenter above meant with "rights for me and not for thee." You want privacy, but you deny your customers the right of knowing who they are doing business with.
        petee 3y ago
        > Not everything is a right because of feelings. But your demand for the right of privacy is based on your feelings of fear. You have no real need for privacy, you just want it. You want protection from "them", and anyone who wants protection from you has to navigate the legal system. You pay $100, they pay thousands for a lawyer. Sounds fair.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
tsimionescu 3y ago
Because these same people agree to absolve you of any debts you accrue if the LLC declares bankruptcy.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  > When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe That's what the justice system is for, not the mob.
  - mavelikara 3y ago
    What is this supposed to mean?
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      Sorry, I skipped a step in explaining my thought process, the reason people want access to this information is for some form of mob justice, otherwise why else would they want it?
      - gavinhoward 3y ago
        No, the reason they want this is so people can't hide money laundering and other crimes with shell companies.
        brigadier132 3y ago
        They can't hide money laundering because of this. Just because the information is not publicly available doesn't mean that law enforcement agencies and the government don't have access to it... How does this information being available to the public help law enforcement do their job?
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        It's also a preventative thing. If I find an LLC I want to do business with, now I can look at who owns it to see if that changes anything. Otherwise, I can't. For me personally, I like having them public because one LLC might become a client, and I want to be sure that client is who they say they are and not owned by a company that I won't do business with. For example, maybe Microsoft decides they want to get support from me. I don't want to support Microsoft. So they have one of their existing shell companies act like a potential client. If LLC records are not public, I can't know it's really Microsoft and reject them. If they are public, I can do the legwork to find out and reject them.
tremon 3y ago
Please. Privacy is hardly a right at all in the US. And in other jurisdictions, privacy is limited to natural persons only, not legal entities.

Privacy is a right. Why do I need random people scrutinizing everything I do?

gavinhoward 3y ago

When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe, I think they have a right to transparency.

brigadier132 3y ago
> When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe That's what the justice system is for, not the mob.
- petee 3y ago
  Rights for me but not for thee
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    What? Anyone can create an LLC if they want to, it's $100 a year if you want to do it completely online (less if you want to deal with more paperwork). I just sell things over the internet and don't want the entire planet to know who I am because of it.
    - gavinhoward 3y ago
      Your customers have a right to know who you are. Otherwise, if you deliver shoddy stuff, they could try to sue, you shut the LLC down, and they're left without justice, even with the justice system.
      - brigadier132 3y ago
        > Your customers have a right to know who you are No they do not. Not everything is a right because of feelings. > if you deliver shoddy stuff, they could try to sue, you shut the LLC down This is way oversimplified. Delivering a "shoddy product" is not illegal and it's not the responsibility of victims to deliver justice, it's the responsibility of the government. If a victim wants justice they should go to a court and a court will have access to information on who owns a business. > and they're left without justice Ok, so you actually are advocating for vigilante and mob justice.
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        No, I am saying that because they would not know who you are, they could not bring a civil case, and law enforcement would not get involved because it is not a criminal case since it is not illegal. But if it was public, they would know who you are and could bring a civil case and go through the justice system. > This is way oversimplified. Delivering a "shoddy product" is not illegal and it's not the responsibility of victims to deliver justice, it's the responsibility of the government. If a victim wants justice they should go to a court and a court will have access to information on who owns a business. Not necessarily. And in a civil case, it is unfortunately the responsibility of the victim to set the wheels of justice in motion through the justice system. I have no idea why you think I am in favor of mob justice when I am at risk of it too as an LLC owner. > No they do not. Not everything is a right because of feelings. This is what the commenter above meant with "rights for me and not for thee." You want privacy, but you deny your customers the right of knowing who they are doing business with.
        petee 3y ago
        > Not everything is a right because of feelings. But your demand for the right of privacy is based on your feelings of fear. You have no real need for privacy, you just want it. You want protection from "them", and anyone who wants protection from you has to navigate the legal system. You pay $100, they pay thousands for a lawyer. Sounds fair.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

tsimionescu 3y ago

Because these same people agree to absolve you of any debts you accrue if the LLC declares bankruptcy.

brigadier132 3y ago
> When random people are giving you protection from legal catastrophe That's what the justice system is for, not the mob.
- mavelikara 3y ago
  What is this supposed to mean?
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    Sorry, I skipped a step in explaining my thought process, the reason people want access to this information is for some form of mob justice, otherwise why else would they want it?
    - gavinhoward 3y ago
      No, the reason they want this is so people can't hide money laundering and other crimes with shell companies.
      - brigadier132 3y ago
        They can't hide money laundering because of this. Just because the information is not publicly available doesn't mean that law enforcement agencies and the government don't have access to it... How does this information being available to the public help law enforcement do their job?
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        It's also a preventative thing. If I find an LLC I want to do business with, now I can look at who owns it to see if that changes anything. Otherwise, I can't. For me personally, I like having them public because one LLC might become a client, and I want to be sure that client is who they say they are and not owned by a company that I won't do business with. For example, maybe Microsoft decides they want to get support from me. I don't want to support Microsoft. So they have one of their existing shell companies act like a potential client. If LLC records are not public, I can't know it's really Microsoft and reject them. If they are public, I can do the legwork to find out and reject them.

tremon 3y ago

Please. Privacy is hardly a right at all in the US. And in other jurisdictions, privacy is limited to natural persons only, not legal entities.