6 ms·

I feel like the ability to deal w/ this type of thing is more person to person assuming you don't have young kids to worry about. Like I do encounter that type

I feel like the ability to deal w/ this type of thing is more person to person assuming you don't have young kids to worry about. Like I do encounter that type of behavior but I don't know for the most part it doesn't bother me. It does make me feel uncomfortable from time to time but I can look past that.

jacobolus 3y ago
I live in the Mission district with young kids, and we walk / take transit all over the city. Smash and grabs of backpacks left in parked cars are annoying, as are bike thefts, and every once in a while a shouting homeless person is a little sketchy, but just like anywhere else in America automobiles are by far the most dangerous feature of daily life for small kids. We've never felt any serious personal safety concern from pedestrians or people hanging out outside.
- hellisothers 3y ago
  I feel the same, when I travel to other larger cities (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc) there are similar problems. It’s not an SF problem it’s a city problem, especially the more “downtown’s” it gets as opposed to more “neighborhood’y”.
  - jacobolus 3y ago
    Cities have plenty of problems, but by and large they are not a particular danger to children. I generally feel significantly safer in cities with relatively walkable sidewalks, relatively narrow streets, and lots of pedestrian/bike traffic than I do in typical American suburbs full of strip malls and 6-lane roads. The latter are in my opinion horrendous places to raise children.
  - ponector 3y ago
    It is not a city problem. It is a US city problem, but people are used to it, the are no incentives to make US cities safer.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - drywaller 3y ago
    In those other cities, the bad guys tend to live there. Whereas in SF, then tend to "commute" from the east bay.
- nox100 3y ago
  Sounds like you're a frog in boiling water. You're so used it you no longer realize the hellhole you live in. note, I also live in the Mission District and it's a shit hole to me. Gangs hanging out at 20th and Mission fronting for each other. Illegal markets all up and down the street selling stolen goods. Traffic signs and laws being ignored. Valdalism everywhere. Homeless under my window. Mentally ill screaming at 3 am. People drag racing at 2am
- j7ake 3y ago
  Can you compare safety concerns and overall quality with other major cities in the world? Hard to judge an international city using only American standards.
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    I moved to San Francisco from the UK about 10 years ago. Fortunately California has relatively strict gun laws so San Francisco is pretty safe for the US if still bad for a developed country. Homicides per 100k (from a couple of years ago): San Francisco: 4.5 US: 6.3 UK/France/Germany: 0.8-1.2 (While most of the difference is due to availability of guns the US is just generally more violent and despite what Trump says the US has 1.5x the knife murders of the UK as well as 70x the gun murders. https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-crime-claim-how-do-the-us-and-uk-compare- https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-crime-clai... ) Living in the Mission there are a handful of shootings per year. But it's a pretty dense neighbourhood so per population it's probably pretty normal for the US. The level of street homelessness is shocking but not as bad as downtown and you get used to that after a while too. Petty crime is definitely a problem. Personally I worry more about being hit by a car crossing the road since cars are allowed to drive through the pedestrian crossing even when there is a walk signal.
    - runsWphotons 3y ago
      Maybe we should ban knives too.
      - runsWphotons 3y ago
        20-25,000 murders per year. Around 40,000 fatal car crashes. Around 5-7000 fatal accidents involving pedestrians. Everyone excited about waymo but opposed to gun and knife wielding security robots.
    - not_really 3y ago
      You've got numbers for guns and knives, why stop there? Do acid attacks next.
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  We also live in the Mission district and just had a kid. We love the walkability but are not sure about staying here long term. Obviously house prices are a factor, but I also know people ferrying their kids across the city to school (as school allocation is not based on location in SF) and that sounds completely hellish to me.
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    school allocation is not based on location in SF This is technically true, but in practice it's up to the parents. If they want to send their kid to their local 'Attendance Area' school, then they can put it as their first choice, and there's a high chance they'll get it. Most parents who need to drive their kids across the city are doing it because the alternative (their kid goes to the nearest school) is, in some way, worse.
  - jacobolus 3y ago
    Neighborhood/distance will have more influence on the school lottery starting next year.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  No offense, but as someone who lived in SF as a kid, it blows my mind that (I assume) techie white families are raising their kids in Mission, Potrero, etc. We lived in those neighborhoods cuz they were cheap and there were community services to fall back on. Once our parents could afford it, they would move out as soon as they could. Gorehs/Gweilo are weird.
  - drywaller 3y ago
    They're outta there by the time their kids hit middle school. It's a temporary stay
  - jacobolus 3y ago
    It's not clear during what time frame you grew up, but note that violent crime is dramatically lower than it was 30+ years ago. It blows my mind that people are so uncaring about their kids' daily experience (mobility, independence, access to interesting activities, ...) as to move to typical American suburbs with their kids. The benefit of the suburbs is a bigger amount of personal space at home for the same price, but everything outside the house kind of sucks, especially for kids. We're not necessarily the "techie family" you are imagining though; I spent about a quarter of my childhood in a medium-poor city in Mexico, and my wife grew up in China. Personally I really appreciate having a quite diverse cast of neighbors.
NBJack 3y ago
It can be polarizing depending on your gender (or rather publicly perceived gender); many women have reported higher levels of harassment and aggression towards them in the same areas others may report fine or acceptable. I've never forgotten a quote by some one who offered to help a homeless woman who smelled rather horrible. Offered things like soap or a safe place to clean up, the woman responded that the smell actually helped reduce sexual advances towards her.

jacobolus 3y ago

I live in the Mission district with young kids, and we walk / take transit all over the city. Smash and grabs of backpacks left in parked cars are annoying, as are bike thefts, and every once in a while a shouting homeless person is a little sketchy, but just like anywhere else in America automobiles are by far the most dangerous feature of daily life for small kids. We've never felt any serious personal safety concern from pedestrians or people hanging out outside.

hellisothers 3y ago
I feel the same, when I travel to other larger cities (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc) there are similar problems. It’s not an SF problem it’s a city problem, especially the more “downtown’s” it gets as opposed to more “neighborhood’y”.
- jacobolus 3y ago
  Cities have plenty of problems, but by and large they are not a particular danger to children. I generally feel significantly safer in cities with relatively walkable sidewalks, relatively narrow streets, and lots of pedestrian/bike traffic than I do in typical American suburbs full of strip malls and 6-lane roads. The latter are in my opinion horrendous places to raise children.
- ponector 3y ago
  It is not a city problem. It is a US city problem, but people are used to it, the are no incentives to make US cities safer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- drywaller 3y ago
  In those other cities, the bad guys tend to live there. Whereas in SF, then tend to "commute" from the east bay.
nox100 3y ago
Sounds like you're a frog in boiling water. You're so used it you no longer realize the hellhole you live in. note, I also live in the Mission District and it's a shit hole to me. Gangs hanging out at 20th and Mission fronting for each other. Illegal markets all up and down the street selling stolen goods. Traffic signs and laws being ignored. Valdalism everywhere. Homeless under my window. Mentally ill screaming at 3 am. People drag racing at 2am
j7ake 3y ago
Can you compare safety concerns and overall quality with other major cities in the world? Hard to judge an international city using only American standards.
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  I moved to San Francisco from the UK about 10 years ago. Fortunately California has relatively strict gun laws so San Francisco is pretty safe for the US if still bad for a developed country. Homicides per 100k (from a couple of years ago): San Francisco: 4.5 US: 6.3 UK/France/Germany: 0.8-1.2 (While most of the difference is due to availability of guns the US is just generally more violent and despite what Trump says the US has 1.5x the knife murders of the UK as well as 70x the gun murders. https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-crime-claim-how-do-the-us-and-uk-compare- https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-crime-clai... ) Living in the Mission there are a handful of shootings per year. But it's a pretty dense neighbourhood so per population it's probably pretty normal for the US. The level of street homelessness is shocking but not as bad as downtown and you get used to that after a while too. Petty crime is definitely a problem. Personally I worry more about being hit by a car crossing the road since cars are allowed to drive through the pedestrian crossing even when there is a walk signal.
  - runsWphotons 3y ago
    Maybe we should ban knives too.
    - runsWphotons 3y ago
      20-25,000 murders per year. Around 40,000 fatal car crashes. Around 5-7000 fatal accidents involving pedestrians. Everyone excited about waymo but opposed to gun and knife wielding security robots.
  - not_really 3y ago
    You've got numbers for guns and knives, why stop there? Do acid attacks next.
laurencerowe 3y ago
We also live in the Mission district and just had a kid. We love the walkability but are not sure about staying here long term. Obviously house prices are a factor, but I also know people ferrying their kids across the city to school (as school allocation is not based on location in SF) and that sounds completely hellish to me.
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  school allocation is not based on location in SF This is technically true, but in practice it's up to the parents. If they want to send their kid to their local 'Attendance Area' school, then they can put it as their first choice, and there's a high chance they'll get it. Most parents who need to drive their kids across the city are doing it because the alternative (their kid goes to the nearest school) is, in some way, worse.
- jacobolus 3y ago
  Neighborhood/distance will have more influence on the school lottery starting next year.
alephnerd 3y ago
No offense, but as someone who lived in SF as a kid, it blows my mind that (I assume) techie white families are raising their kids in Mission, Potrero, etc. We lived in those neighborhoods cuz they were cheap and there were community services to fall back on. Once our parents could afford it, they would move out as soon as they could. Gorehs/Gweilo are weird.
- drywaller 3y ago
  They're outta there by the time their kids hit middle school. It's a temporary stay
- jacobolus 3y ago
  It's not clear during what time frame you grew up, but note that violent crime is dramatically lower than it was 30+ years ago. It blows my mind that people are so uncaring about their kids' daily experience (mobility, independence, access to interesting activities, ...) as to move to typical American suburbs with their kids. The benefit of the suburbs is a bigger amount of personal space at home for the same price, but everything outside the house kind of sucks, especially for kids. We're not necessarily the "techie family" you are imagining though; I spent about a quarter of my childhood in a medium-poor city in Mexico, and my wife grew up in China. Personally I really appreciate having a quite diverse cast of neighbors.

NBJack 3y ago

It can be polarizing depending on your gender (or rather publicly perceived gender); many women have reported higher levels of harassment and aggression towards them in the same areas others may report fine or acceptable. I've never forgotten a quote by some one who offered to help a homeless woman who smelled rather horrible. Offered things like soap or a safe place to clean up, the woman responded that the smell actually helped reduce sexual advances towards her.