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Reminder that the military held that 4 hours sleep was plenty for a century, and had data to justify it.
by porkbeer 3y ago
Reminder that the military held that 4 hours sleep was plenty for a century, and had data to justify it.
- jorvi 3y agoYeah, I’m usually a very scientific man deferring to studies over personal feelings, but I can literally feel the mental fog clear up by the minute if I open a window on the afternoon in my study/work room after forgetting to do so in the morning. Hell, if I have a day where I am quasi-forced to spend most of it in musty rooms, I get a guaranteed headache.
- sarchertech 3y agoThere are so many things other than CO2 that can affect your feeling of mental fog. In addition the placebo effect is very very real. ISS astronauts are routinely living in a 5000ppm environment. If the size of the effects of these studies were real, they’d be noticeable. The most commonly cited study shows that 1400ppm cuts basic decision making ability by 25% and complex decision making ability by 50%. The study also shows a dose dependent response. So how are people routinely operating at nearly 5 times that level for weeks at a time with no noticeable decline? Results this large should by very easy to detect by simply measuring the CO2 levels at multiple SAT test taking sites and comparing scores. Even without looking, an effect this large is the kind of thing that would jump out at the College Board or any other standardized test creator anytime they’re looking through their data to normalize scores or detect cheating.
- jorvi 3y agoHere in The Netherlands for classrooms we have regulations that aim for a classroom to stay below 950ppm CO2. I think almost every high school kid can remember how drowsy a full, poorly ventilated classroom would get. Like I said I’m usually a scientific man but this is such a basic thing that anyone with any daily life experience would immediately recognize this 4000ppm (or whatever) as wrong. Humans are also quite sensitive to noticing when a room is “stuffy”, so, yeah.
- maxerickson 3y agoWhat's the typical temperature change associated with opening the window?
- cameronh90 3y agoStuffiness is mostly a function of humidity. The problem with these casual discussions about CO2 levels is they don’t control for other factors. Opening a window definitely wakes you up, but is it the cold breeze or the CO2?
- jorvi 3y agoI had some more time today, just with a cursory google I could find at least 5 studies that show cognitive decline with rising CO2 (and PM2.5, but that’s another discussion). So yeah, my gut feeling was right. It’s probably good to not consider one negative study disproving a body of positive studies.
- sarchertech 3y agoThere’s not one negative study, there’s many studies over many years. Here’s a good walkthrough of a meta study attempting to figure out what’s going on. https://www.construction-physics.com/p/we-need-more-research-on-how-co2 https://www.construction-physics.com/p/we-need-more-research...
- refurb 3y agoThe human brain is a hell of a drug. This is why we do randomized, placebo controlled studies. Saying “you can feel the mental fog clear” is likely a placebo effect.
- sarchertech 3y agoAs far as I know the army said (and still says) 4 hours is enough short term in the field not routinely. If you’re saying they suggested soldiers only need 4 hours of sleep long term, do you have any citations for this? Links to the studies they used to justify it. Because you can read the studies on CO2 and judge the methodology yourself.
- gerdesj 3y agoQuite, and given that we are all humans, we should have a fair idea from personal experience.