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Eh this is really tricky, for exampe if I open instagram, Threads or tiktok 9/10 posts will be pro-palestinian with 1 being pro-israeli. Then some of the propal

Eh this is really tricky, for exampe if I open instagram, Threads or tiktok 9/10 posts will be pro-palestinian with 1 being pro-israeli. Then some of the propalestinian post will be calling for genocide or celebrating the massacre of oct 7. IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. When something is propaganda or false just quickly tag it as such with why it is false like Xitter does.

rottencupcakes 3y ago
Twitter has surprisingly become much better since Elon purchased it. The community tags are great and non-partisan, they fairly report on all inaccuracy. Even advertisers aren’t immune, I’ve seen community tags on paid ads calling them out for being drop shippers.
- throwuxiytayq 3y ago
  [flagged]
- GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
  Notably, Community Notes (formerly Birdwatch) was released in Jan 2021. Elon just flipped the feature flag.
  - junofan 3y ago
    Worth noting Birdwatch launched alongside the ability to report tweets for misinformation, a feature Elon disabled. For that reason it’s difficult to conceive of Community Notes today as a simple continuation of the Birdwatch effort.
    - GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
      I think he was right to disable the ability for Community Notes to actually report and remove tweets. First, it's a vector for abuse. Second, misinformation is a loaded term and having the context along side the content is more important for an informed public. Of course anything illegal or against ToS should be removed and only be the purview of Twitter's moderation team (or what's left of it).
- cmur 3y ago
  I have had the opposite experience with X, I find it hard to escape any cheap rage bait on my feed regardless of how I would tag or hide pages. It’s interesting you have this experience, though.
- brightball 3y ago
  In a 2 day span I saw George Soros and Tucker Carlson get hit by Community Notes. Gave me some hope that Elon is serious.
  - dang 3y ago
    > get hit by Community Notes How does that work? can anyone post a "community note", or by what process is that decided?
    - sampo 3y ago
      https://help.twitter.com/en/using-x/community-notes https://help.twitter.com/en/using-x/community-notes
      - dang 3y ago
        Thanks! But I didn't find a clear description there of how this works. What elevates an ordinary comment to a "community note" and what determines whether a "community note" stays up as a sort of verdict on the original post? This seems like a hard thing to get right at scale. If you rely on voting (i.e. likes or whatever), you'll just end up with a parallel comment system, no more authoritative than the original one. So there must be some other process deciding which proposed notes get this special status. (Perhaps I should add: yes, I'm being lazy; no, I'm not being critical - I just want someone to explain this to me so I don't have to work to find out.)
        sampo 3y ago
        Be a verified (by phone number, no need to pay) twitter user. Apply to be a Community notes contributor. Wait. If accepted, you start with 0 points. Twitter will start to show you proposed (as opposed to published) community notes. You can vote yes / no. If a note you voted yes (or no) will get enough other yes (no) votes to get published (rejected), you will get 1 point. If you voted "wrong", you will lose a point. After you have a certain number of points (I think 5), you can also write proposed notes yourself, not just vote. If your note gets rejected, you lose 5 points. But twitter is not only counting the yes / no votes. They need people who have voted differently on some previous notes, to agree in their votes on this note, before their algorithm makes the decision to publish or reject the note. A lot of proposed notes will never get enough votes to be decidedly published or rejected, so they will linger in the "proposed" stage forever.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Pointing out yet again that Community Notes long precedes Musk's purchase of Twitter. It got going in early 2021; I was one of the first batch to sign up for it, although I think it had been in developments for a year or so before that. January 6 rattled a lot of people at Twitter so I suspect that influenced the timing of the rollout. Perhaps the confusion is that CN was originally called 'Birdwatch' and people don't realize they're the same thing.
- d3w4s9 3y ago
  I guess you haven't read any news for a while. Advertisers are fleeing Twitter and nobody knows how much longer Twitter will exist, because, well, they don't want their ads to be displayed next to Nazi content, in any circumstances. If you find Twitter better, good for you for swimming in that kind of content.
cm2012 3y ago
[flagged]
- ignoramous 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever seen an anti-war post with more than 20 comments without 19 of them being seriously genocidal sounding towards Pal/Arabs; ex: https://twitter.com/freyisrael1/status/1734954135886115221 https://twitter.com/freyisrael1/status/1734954135886115221 Funny how algorithms work. They make us see the world in binaries and absolutes; of one side being capable of no good and the other side capable of no evil.
- cogman10 3y ago
  Any examples of this? That hasn't been my experience but that may just be the communities I frequent.
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    I believe you, but it’s important to realize how strong the impulse is to overlook, explain-away, or pretend not to see bad behavior on one’s own side.
    - cogman10 3y ago
      Certainly, so do you have examples of what I should be watching out for? (Preferably with links)
      - Robotbeat 3y ago
        If you can’t see bad behavior on both sides when it’s pretty obvious here, I’m not sure it’s worth my time providing specifics. I suspect it’ll just be explained away. “From the River to the Sea,” for example. Just wink nod “that’s not what it means”
        cogman10 3y ago
dehrmann 3y ago
> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. Full disclosure: I work for Meta, but not on ranking, and my opinions are my own. Edit: this isn't specific to Meta; it's common to all content platforms. This is really hard. There's universally objectionable material like CSAM. That's (politically) easy to exclude. There are leaked state secrets the public should know. There's hate speech (laws vary by country). Sexual material (laws vary). Nudity (laws and customs vary). Then there's libel (which is hard and slow to prove). That's just on the legal side. That's what you're calling for, but that's hard enough. I have no idea how Kiwi Farms and 4chan do it. Then there's ranking. Maybe the posts are there if you know where to look, but realistically, you'll never see them. People say "just show the posts in chronological order," but this doesn't scale for humans reading it, especially as you follow more people.
- mcny 3y ago
  > but this doesn't scale for humans reading it, especially as you follow more people. Just having the option to not see anything I am not explicitly following and always seeing posts in reverse chronological order would be nice. Right now I barely ever go to Facebook because my timeline is a mess. I've manually unfollowed all my friends and yet the spam comes through.
  - tylerchurch 3y ago
    > I've manually unfollowed all my friends and yet the spam comes through. If you've unfollowed everyone what do you expect to see?
    - j-bos 3y ago
      Not the one you're replying to but I unfollow all, but a couple people.
    - noitpmeder 3y ago
      ... nothing?
    - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
arp242 3y ago
> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. When something is propaganda or false just quickly tag it as such with why it is false like Xitter does. It seems to me this just moves the problem, because then we'd be having discussions about how this stuff is wrongly tagged, no? Also who does the tagging? Random users? See how well that will work. And I'm fairly certain Twitter still removes stuff? If I post "gas the Jews" or "gas the Arabs" I wouldn't expect that to stay up?
octacat 3y ago
Even tricker that if there is not enough moderation, Apple could remove your app or some government would ban it.
lostlogin 3y ago
> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. The two things that immediately come to my mind are the organisation of the genocide of Rohingya [1] and the live streaming of the Christchurch mosque massacre [2]. Both of these were promoted by Facebook too I believe. Free speech absolutists see no issue with allowing that content to exist. I believe in free speech, but believe it has limits. It’s good to see the FB employee, dehrmann, with sane (personal) comments. [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-facebooks-systems-promoted-violence-against-rohingya-meta-owes-reparations-new-report/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/facebook-new-zealand-christchurch-attack-response https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/facebook-new...
wvenable 3y ago
> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. What is the platform for? Checking out pictures of your grandchildren and keeping up on with the knitting group or is it for an international propaganda war? If you censor nothing then it's no longer a platform, it's a war zone. You can argue that the censorship is unfair, politically skewed, etc but you can't argue that it shouldn't be done at all or there won't be one inch of the Internet not dedicated to this and every other conflict everywhere. If HN itself went completely uncensored it would become useless to us almost immediately. Who ever posts most, wins.
pityJuke 3y ago
> Eh this is really tricky, for exampe if I open instagram, Threads or tiktok 9/10 posts will be pro-palestinian Yeah. I don't think I've seen any pro-Israeli content on Instagram, just overwhelming comment spam on random posts asking said content creator to acknowledge Palestine. As for Threads, both are common.

rottencupcakes 3y ago

Twitter has surprisingly become much better since Elon purchased it. The community tags are great and non-partisan, they fairly report on all inaccuracy. Even advertisers aren’t immune, I’ve seen community tags on paid ads calling them out for being drop shippers.

throwuxiytayq 3y ago
[flagged]
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
Notably, Community Notes (formerly Birdwatch) was released in Jan 2021. Elon just flipped the feature flag.
- junofan 3y ago
  Worth noting Birdwatch launched alongside the ability to report tweets for misinformation, a feature Elon disabled. For that reason it’s difficult to conceive of Community Notes today as a simple continuation of the Birdwatch effort.
  - GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
    I think he was right to disable the ability for Community Notes to actually report and remove tweets. First, it's a vector for abuse. Second, misinformation is a loaded term and having the context along side the content is more important for an informed public. Of course anything illegal or against ToS should be removed and only be the purview of Twitter's moderation team (or what's left of it).
cmur 3y ago
I have had the opposite experience with X, I find it hard to escape any cheap rage bait on my feed regardless of how I would tag or hide pages. It’s interesting you have this experience, though.
brightball 3y ago
In a 2 day span I saw George Soros and Tucker Carlson get hit by Community Notes. Gave me some hope that Elon is serious.
- dang 3y ago
  > get hit by Community Notes How does that work? can anyone post a "community note", or by what process is that decided?
  - sampo 3y ago
    https://help.twitter.com/en/using-x/community-notes https://help.twitter.com/en/using-x/community-notes
    - dang 3y ago
      Thanks! But I didn't find a clear description there of how this works. What elevates an ordinary comment to a "community note" and what determines whether a "community note" stays up as a sort of verdict on the original post? This seems like a hard thing to get right at scale. If you rely on voting (i.e. likes or whatever), you'll just end up with a parallel comment system, no more authoritative than the original one. So there must be some other process deciding which proposed notes get this special status. (Perhaps I should add: yes, I'm being lazy; no, I'm not being critical - I just want someone to explain this to me so I don't have to work to find out.)
      - sampo 3y ago
        Be a verified (by phone number, no need to pay) twitter user. Apply to be a Community notes contributor. Wait. If accepted, you start with 0 points. Twitter will start to show you proposed (as opposed to published) community notes. You can vote yes / no. If a note you voted yes (or no) will get enough other yes (no) votes to get published (rejected), you will get 1 point. If you voted "wrong", you will lose a point. After you have a certain number of points (I think 5), you can also write proposed notes yourself, not just vote. If your note gets rejected, you lose 5 points. But twitter is not only counting the yes / no votes. They need people who have voted differently on some previous notes, to agree in their votes on this note, before their algorithm makes the decision to publish or reject the note. A lot of proposed notes will never get enough votes to be decidedly published or rejected, so they will linger in the "proposed" stage forever.
anigbrowl 3y ago
Pointing out yet again that Community Notes long precedes Musk's purchase of Twitter. It got going in early 2021; I was one of the first batch to sign up for it, although I think it had been in developments for a year or so before that. January 6 rattled a lot of people at Twitter so I suspect that influenced the timing of the rollout. Perhaps the confusion is that CN was originally called 'Birdwatch' and people don't realize they're the same thing.
d3w4s9 3y ago
I guess you haven't read any news for a while. Advertisers are fleeing Twitter and nobody knows how much longer Twitter will exist, because, well, they don't want their ads to be displayed next to Nazi content, in any circumstances. If you find Twitter better, good for you for swimming in that kind of content.

cm2012 3y ago

[flagged]

ignoramous 3y ago
I don't think I've ever seen an anti-war post with more than 20 comments without 19 of them being seriously genocidal sounding towards Pal/Arabs; ex: https://twitter.com/freyisrael1/status/1734954135886115221 https://twitter.com/freyisrael1/status/1734954135886115221 Funny how algorithms work. They make us see the world in binaries and absolutes; of one side being capable of no good and the other side capable of no evil.
cogman10 3y ago
Any examples of this? That hasn't been my experience but that may just be the communities I frequent.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  I believe you, but it’s important to realize how strong the impulse is to overlook, explain-away, or pretend not to see bad behavior on one’s own side.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    Certainly, so do you have examples of what I should be watching out for? (Preferably with links)
    - Robotbeat 3y ago
      If you can’t see bad behavior on both sides when it’s pretty obvious here, I’m not sure it’s worth my time providing specifics. I suspect it’ll just be explained away. “From the River to the Sea,” for example. Just wink nod “that’s not what it means”
      - cogman10 3y ago

dehrmann 3y ago

> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. Full disclosure: I work for Meta, but not on ranking, and my opinions are my own. Edit: this isn't specific to Meta; it's common to all content platforms. This is really hard. There's universally objectionable material like CSAM. That's (politically) easy to exclude. There are leaked state secrets the public should know. There's hate speech (laws vary by country). Sexual material (laws vary). Nudity (laws and customs vary). Then there's libel (which is hard and slow to prove). That's just on the legal side. That's what you're calling for, but that's hard enough. I have no idea how Kiwi Farms and 4chan do it. Then there's ranking. Maybe the posts are there if you know where to look, but realistically, you'll never see them. People say "just show the posts in chronological order," but this doesn't scale for humans reading it, especially as you follow more people.

mcny 3y ago
> but this doesn't scale for humans reading it, especially as you follow more people. Just having the option to not see anything I am not explicitly following and always seeing posts in reverse chronological order would be nice. Right now I barely ever go to Facebook because my timeline is a mess. I've manually unfollowed all my friends and yet the spam comes through.
- tylerchurch 3y ago
  > I've manually unfollowed all my friends and yet the spam comes through. If you've unfollowed everyone what do you expect to see?
  - j-bos 3y ago
    Not the one you're replying to but I unfollow all, but a couple people.
  - noitpmeder 3y ago
    ... nothing?
  - CuriousCosmic 3y ago

arp242 3y ago

> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. When something is propaganda or false just quickly tag it as such with why it is false like Xitter does. It seems to me this just moves the problem, because then we'd be having discussions about how this stuff is wrongly tagged, no? Also who does the tagging? Random users? See how well that will work. And I'm fairly certain Twitter still removes stuff? If I post "gas the Jews" or "gas the Arabs" I wouldn't expect that to stay up?

octacat 3y ago

Even tricker that if there is not enough moderation, Apple could remove your app or some government would ban it.

lostlogin 3y ago

> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. That's the only solution. The two things that immediately come to my mind are the organisation of the genocide of Rohingya [1] and the live streaming of the Christchurch mosque massacre [2]. Both of these were promoted by Facebook too I believe. Free speech absolutists see no issue with allowing that content to exist. I believe in free speech, but believe it has limits. It’s good to see the FB employee, dehrmann, with sane (personal) comments. [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-facebooks-systems-promoted-violence-against-rohingya-meta-owes-reparations-new-report/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/facebook-new-zealand-christchurch-attack-response https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/29/facebook-new...

wvenable 3y ago

> IMO you shouldn't censor anything. What is the platform for? Checking out pictures of your grandchildren and keeping up on with the knitting group or is it for an international propaganda war? If you censor nothing then it's no longer a platform, it's a war zone. You can argue that the censorship is unfair, politically skewed, etc but you can't argue that it shouldn't be done at all or there won't be one inch of the Internet not dedicated to this and every other conflict everywhere. If HN itself went completely uncensored it would become useless to us almost immediately. Who ever posts most, wins.

pityJuke 3y ago

> Eh this is really tricky, for exampe if I open instagram, Threads or tiktok 9/10 posts will be pro-palestinian Yeah. I don't think I've seen any pro-Israeli content on Instagram, just overwhelming comment spam on random posts asking said content creator to acknowledge Palestine. As for Threads, both are common.