5 ms·

We're watching Apple fill the moat in.

by ZeroCool2u 3y ago

m3kw9 3y ago
OpenAI can just copy this.
- yreg 3y ago
  They cannot integrate it deeply into Apple's platforms.
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    Hence OpenAI is looking at hardware themselves. https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-owner-openai-is-exploring-making-its-own-ai-chips-sources-2023-10-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-owner-openai-is-e... https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/27/openai-is-reportedly-in-talks-with-jony-ive-about-a-hardware-project/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/27/openai-is-reportedly-in-ta...
    - nicce 3y ago
      It does not matter much if they do not make competitor for iPhones and get consumers to choose them. Because consumers keep buying iPhones and will have then Apple hardware. And they cannot bring software ecosystem for their hardware without Google, at least easily.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        It doesn't matter because Apple would not offer OpenAI actual integration terms, period. Their only option is to create an alternative hardware platform, because Apple fights tooth-and-nail to pick and choose what software iPhone users are allowed to run.
        nicce 3y ago
        That is what I was saying…
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - philistine 3y ago
      Never bet against the phone. Right now it's an essential component of any winning move in tech.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        If you do bet on the phone, make sure you only bet on the first-party OEM. API depreciation, exclusive entitlements, user restrictions, payment-processing or flat-out Sherlocking are all realistic and credible threats to your business. As they say, the house always wins.
- daralthus 3y ago
  Don't think they have AR Glasses just yet.
- pridkett 3y ago
  Yes, OpenAI can copy this, but they’ll still have less of a moat. That’s the problem with moats, once they’re gone even if you copy what others do, you don’t have a moat anymore. Think of it in a physical sense. OpenAI is a high walled castle surrounded by a physical moat. This protects them and their business model. Apple comes along and builds a super tall tower right next to the moat. They can now see into OpenAI’s castle, fire arrows, catapult in a giant wooden badger, etc. Even if Open AI copies the design of Apple’s really tall tower and built it behind the moat and castle walls, it wouldn’t do much because Apple still would be able to get stuff over the moat and walls. The moat doesn’t matter anymore for the most part. The castle (OpenAI) can be compromised and needs bigger walls, relocating to someplace with a bigger, or a way of attacking the tower (Apple). Copying doesn’t really accomplish any of those three.
FredPret 3y ago
How so?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- colesantiago 3y ago
  Running Multimodal LLMs on device and offline, i.e LLMKit for free equaling GPT-3.5 / 4 then Google will follow on Android. Ability to download / update tiny models from Apple and Google as they improve, à la Google Maps. No need for web services like ChatGPT.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    So Apple is filling in ChatGPT's moat then, not their own? Pardon my confusion
    - colesantiago 3y ago
      Yes, it looks like Apple is going after everyone and anyone that has a web based LLM, ChatGPT, Poe, Claude, etc. via developer kits LLMKit that can work offline. This will only work if their models (even their tiny or even medium / base models) equal (or are better than) GPT-3.5 / 4. From there, Google will follow Apple in doing this offline / local LLM play with Gemini. OpenAI's ChatGPT moat will certainly shrink a bit unless they release another powerful multimodal model.
      - turnsout 3y ago
        Apple's moat has been and continues to be their insanely large installed base of high-margin hardware devices. Meanwhile, LLMs are rapidly becoming so commoditized that consumers are already expecting them to be built-in to every product. Eventually LLMs will be like spell check—completely standard and undifferentiated. If OpenAI wants to survive, they will need to expand way beyond their current business model of charging for access to an LLM. The logical place for them to go would be custom chipsets or ARM/RISCV IP blocks for inference.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tomrod 3y ago
Here it comes!
jonahbenton 3y ago
Dig the moat out, I think you mean ;)

We're watching Apple fill the moat in.

m3kw9 3y ago

OpenAI can just copy this.

yreg 3y ago
They cannot integrate it deeply into Apple's platforms.
- colesantiago 3y ago
  Hence OpenAI is looking at hardware themselves. https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-owner-openai-is-exploring-making-its-own-ai-chips-sources-2023-10-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-owner-openai-is-e... https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/27/openai-is-reportedly-in-talks-with-jony-ive-about-a-hardware-project/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/27/openai-is-reportedly-in-ta...
  - nicce 3y ago
    It does not matter much if they do not make competitor for iPhones and get consumers to choose them. Because consumers keep buying iPhones and will have then Apple hardware. And they cannot bring software ecosystem for their hardware without Google, at least easily.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      It doesn't matter because Apple would not offer OpenAI actual integration terms, period. Their only option is to create an alternative hardware platform, because Apple fights tooth-and-nail to pick and choose what software iPhone users are allowed to run.
      - nicce 3y ago
        That is what I was saying…
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - philistine 3y ago
    Never bet against the phone. Right now it's an essential component of any winning move in tech.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      If you do bet on the phone, make sure you only bet on the first-party OEM. API depreciation, exclusive entitlements, user restrictions, payment-processing or flat-out Sherlocking are all realistic and credible threats to your business. As they say, the house always wins.
daralthus 3y ago
Don't think they have AR Glasses just yet.
pridkett 3y ago
Yes, OpenAI can copy this, but they’ll still have less of a moat. That’s the problem with moats, once they’re gone even if you copy what others do, you don’t have a moat anymore. Think of it in a physical sense. OpenAI is a high walled castle surrounded by a physical moat. This protects them and their business model. Apple comes along and builds a super tall tower right next to the moat. They can now see into OpenAI’s castle, fire arrows, catapult in a giant wooden badger, etc. Even if Open AI copies the design of Apple’s really tall tower and built it behind the moat and castle walls, it wouldn’t do much because Apple still would be able to get stuff over the moat and walls. The moat doesn’t matter anymore for the most part. The castle (OpenAI) can be compromised and needs bigger walls, relocating to someplace with a bigger, or a way of attacking the tower (Apple). Copying doesn’t really accomplish any of those three.

FredPret 3y ago

How so?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
colesantiago 3y ago
Running Multimodal LLMs on device and offline, i.e LLMKit for free equaling GPT-3.5 / 4 then Google will follow on Android. Ability to download / update tiny models from Apple and Google as they improve, à la Google Maps. No need for web services like ChatGPT.
- FredPret 3y ago
  So Apple is filling in ChatGPT's moat then, not their own? Pardon my confusion
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    Yes, it looks like Apple is going after everyone and anyone that has a web based LLM, ChatGPT, Poe, Claude, etc. via developer kits LLMKit that can work offline. This will only work if their models (even their tiny or even medium / base models) equal (or are better than) GPT-3.5 / 4. From there, Google will follow Apple in doing this offline / local LLM play with Gemini. OpenAI's ChatGPT moat will certainly shrink a bit unless they release another powerful multimodal model.
    - turnsout 3y ago
      Apple's moat has been and continues to be their insanely large installed base of high-margin hardware devices. Meanwhile, LLMs are rapidly becoming so commoditized that consumers are already expecting them to be built-in to every product. Eventually LLMs will be like spell check—completely standard and undifferentiated. If OpenAI wants to survive, they will need to expand way beyond their current business model of charging for access to an LLM. The logical place for them to go would be custom chipsets or ARM/RISCV IP blocks for inference.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tomrod 3y ago

Here it comes!

jonahbenton 3y ago

Dig the moat out, I think you mean ;)