5 ms·

I agree with Kellogg that individual change is both near-impossible and pointless. For most Americans it's not possible to live a day to day life without involv

by acabal 3y ago

I agree with Kellogg that individual change is both near-impossible and pointless. For most Americans it's not possible to live a day to day life without involving single use plastics and plastic packaging. For example I can't even go to my local supermarket and buy raw vegetables without involving single-use plastics: a sack of potatoes comes in a plastic bag, cucumbers are shrink wrapped (!) and often corn-on-the-cob is precut and packed in foam and plastic meat packs (!!). Plus, at this point single-use plastic is part of our culture. How can you have Halloween without billions of tiny individually-plastic-wrapped candies? If you're an individual trying to be zero waste, are you supposed to tell your kid they can't do Halloween? Change must necessarily come from legislation - that's the only single use plastic reduction has a chance. And I do think that people almost don't notice when it's gone - for example plastic shopping bags have been legislated away in many places in America and nobody seems to talk about that any more.

Syonyk 3y ago
You can actually just buy the fruits and vegetables without putting them in a plastic bag. It gets some weird looks, but it's perfectly fine most places. And as far as things like Halloween, it's not hard to get kids onboard with various projects and let them come up with solutions to things. "Less processed candy" wouldn't be a bad thing in our society. Though quite a bit of candy is a waxed paper wrap.
- pests 3y ago
  He means they come pre-wrapped in plastic. Like a shrink wrapped box would in the electronics department. Not raw veggies you put into a bag yourself.
- acabal 3y ago
  I'm not referring to the plastic bags that you put your own vegetables in, I mean that at many groceries, including the one near me, these vegetables come prepackaged by the store/distributor and you don't have a choice to buy 10 loose raw potatoes or a whole corn-on-the-cob in a raw husk. Of course it depends on the store - but then do I drive an extra 15 mins (and emit all that carbon...) just to go to a different store with some loose veggies?
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    Oh... weird. I've never run into that, but I'm out in something closer to farm country than I expect a lot of people are (it's a short walk from my place to active farm fields). I think the right answer, if you're in that sort of plastic hellscape, is to find your local community agriculture box sort of projects, and get fresh things in a recyclable cardboard box. Though I would also consider "not shopping at the place you mention and explaining to a manager why."
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
logtempo 3y ago
The cucumber plastic is really helpfull to not loose too much cucumber, it prevent dehydratation, this way it can last almost a month. And losing cucumber mean you are wasting fuel on all the "processing" and transport. That said, a change in the process is possible, which prove your point of "individual change is near-impossible and pointless".
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  How does your cucumber last a month?! In particular cucumbers tend to get bad within a few days for us, which is very frustrating.
  - logtempo 3y ago
    You buy cucumber that might have left the crop since +20 days already.
- jwagenet 3y ago
  I’ve only ever seen the long, skinny “Persian” cucumbers in plastic and don’t buy them for that reason (maybe I should). Regular “fat” and pickle cucumbers are rarely in plastic, if ever.
  - WillPostForFood 3y ago
    English cucumbers are usually wrapped in plastic because they have a thin skin and it helps keep in moisture, and it extends the shelf life.
  - logtempo 3y ago
    Yes, not all cucumber are in plastic for various reasons. If plastic could be avoided, producers would avoid it as it don't bring any advantage from a marketing pov (aka it's not sexy like a cereal box is).
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  Gotta learn to eat vegetables in time, maybe? I get mine weekly from my local farmer and I live in the inner city of Paris. There's zero waste because we only get what he harvests. Each basket covers a week.
tayo42 3y ago
you do all your shopping at trader Joe's?
- kibwen 3y ago
  My Trader Joe's has all sorts of loose (non-wrapped) fruits and veggies.
haswell 3y ago
> individual change is both near-impossible and pointless. I disagree, strongly, for two reasons. 1. Individual change is the only thing most of us can do 2. Legislation won’t happen until enough people care enough to demand it For legislation to ever have a hope, the voting public needs to care enough to put candidates in office who will institute this legislation. I just don’t see how this happens if everyone concludes “there’s nothing I can do”. I agree that the global impact of my actions aren’t enough on their own to make a difference in terms of actual waste output. But each of our individual actions are collectively a prerequisite to actual legislation. The actions we each take also influence those around us, which is again a prerequisite to broader awareness and the outcomes this awareness can lead to. Expecting legislation to solve this while carrying on as usual is washing our hands of responsibility. We need both things to happen.
- kwk1 3y ago
  > 1. Individual change is the only thing each of us can do > 2. Legislation won’t happen until enough people care enough to demand it I don't think the first item is quite right, and the second item even suggests it isn't. I would amend it to say that we can't guarantee anything but individual action (and even that is not certain), but it's far from the only thing we can do.
  - haswell 3y ago
    You caught that before my quick edit - I replaced “each” with “most”, but I agree with your amendment. It’s the one thing we can each absolutely start doing today. And the choice to do so is a meaningful one that changes each of us and the people around us.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  I don't think anything can cause people to collect potato sacks from houses except poverty. The rag and bone man is a very low paid hard life and all of these medieval-scale recycling proposals overlook the details of the lives of the people who used to implement them.
- klipt 3y ago

by acabal 3y ago

Syonyk 3y ago

You can actually just buy the fruits and vegetables without putting them in a plastic bag. It gets some weird looks, but it's perfectly fine most places. And as far as things like Halloween, it's not hard to get kids onboard with various projects and let them come up with solutions to things. "Less processed candy" wouldn't be a bad thing in our society. Though quite a bit of candy is a waxed paper wrap.

pests 3y ago
He means they come pre-wrapped in plastic. Like a shrink wrapped box would in the electronics department. Not raw veggies you put into a bag yourself.
acabal 3y ago
I'm not referring to the plastic bags that you put your own vegetables in, I mean that at many groceries, including the one near me, these vegetables come prepackaged by the store/distributor and you don't have a choice to buy 10 loose raw potatoes or a whole corn-on-the-cob in a raw husk. Of course it depends on the store - but then do I drive an extra 15 mins (and emit all that carbon...) just to go to a different store with some loose veggies?
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Oh... weird. I've never run into that, but I'm out in something closer to farm country than I expect a lot of people are (it's a short walk from my place to active farm fields). I think the right answer, if you're in that sort of plastic hellscape, is to find your local community agriculture box sort of projects, and get fresh things in a recyclable cardboard box. Though I would also consider "not shopping at the place you mention and explaining to a manager why."

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

logtempo 3y ago

The cucumber plastic is really helpfull to not loose too much cucumber, it prevent dehydratation, this way it can last almost a month. And losing cucumber mean you are wasting fuel on all the "processing" and transport. That said, a change in the process is possible, which prove your point of "individual change is near-impossible and pointless".

Ma8ee 3y ago
How does your cucumber last a month?! In particular cucumbers tend to get bad within a few days for us, which is very frustrating.
- logtempo 3y ago
  You buy cucumber that might have left the crop since +20 days already.
jwagenet 3y ago
I’ve only ever seen the long, skinny “Persian” cucumbers in plastic and don’t buy them for that reason (maybe I should). Regular “fat” and pickle cucumbers are rarely in plastic, if ever.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  English cucumbers are usually wrapped in plastic because they have a thin skin and it helps keep in moisture, and it extends the shelf life.
- logtempo 3y ago
  Yes, not all cucumber are in plastic for various reasons. If plastic could be avoided, producers would avoid it as it don't bring any advantage from a marketing pov (aka it's not sexy like a cereal box is).
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
Gotta learn to eat vegetables in time, maybe? I get mine weekly from my local farmer and I live in the inner city of Paris. There's zero waste because we only get what he harvests. Each basket covers a week.

tayo42 3y ago

you do all your shopping at trader Joe's?

kibwen 3y ago
My Trader Joe's has all sorts of loose (non-wrapped) fruits and veggies.

haswell 3y ago

> individual change is both near-impossible and pointless. I disagree, strongly, for two reasons. 1. Individual change is the only thing most of us can do 2. Legislation won’t happen until enough people care enough to demand it For legislation to ever have a hope, the voting public needs to care enough to put candidates in office who will institute this legislation. I just don’t see how this happens if everyone concludes “there’s nothing I can do”. I agree that the global impact of my actions aren’t enough on their own to make a difference in terms of actual waste output. But each of our individual actions are collectively a prerequisite to actual legislation. The actions we each take also influence those around us, which is again a prerequisite to broader awareness and the outcomes this awareness can lead to. Expecting legislation to solve this while carrying on as usual is washing our hands of responsibility. We need both things to happen.

kwk1 3y ago
> 1. Individual change is the only thing each of us can do > 2. Legislation won’t happen until enough people care enough to demand it I don't think the first item is quite right, and the second item even suggests it isn't. I would amend it to say that we can't guarantee anything but individual action (and even that is not certain), but it's far from the only thing we can do.
- haswell 3y ago
  You caught that before my quick edit - I replaced “each” with “most”, but I agree with your amendment. It’s the one thing we can each absolutely start doing today. And the choice to do so is a meaningful one that changes each of us and the people around us.
whatshisface 3y ago
I don't think anything can cause people to collect potato sacks from houses except poverty. The rag and bone man is a very low paid hard life and all of these medieval-scale recycling proposals overlook the details of the lives of the people who used to implement them.
klipt 3y ago