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Seems to me like Sam Altman is really good at making the actual builders believe that they need him to make things happen, and really successful at making the w

Seems to me like Sam Altman is really good at making the actual builders believe that they need him to make things happen, and really successful at making the world believe that he was the actual builder. On that note he just posted a thread on how much of a visionary he is. I follow a lot of people on this topic and even at the top of the foodchain there are hundreds of people from all corners of the world competing with each and improving each others work. It's actually really fun and amazing to watch(especially the pace at which it happens) and very different from how Sam portrays it. https://twitter.com/sama/status/1214274038933020672 https://twitter.com/sama/status/1214274038933020672

tptacek 3y ago
Then why do you care? I don't care, even enough to click on that. Why do you? I'm asking seriously.
- CPLX 3y ago
  Because understanding where actual power comes from in society and how it is wielded in practice is both interesting and substantive.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    If this thread about (presumably) being a visionary constitutes the wielding of power, I dispute how much power is actually invested in this topic.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      Sam Altman controls billions of dollars in assets, and attends Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove events. He's sort of the walking definition of social and economic power.
      - unityByFreedom 3y ago
        And yet, he nearly lost his job. None of us are perfect, nor are any of us better than any other. Let's cut the idolizing.
        solardev 3y ago
        Not many from us can go from "nearly losing the job" to "getting 95% of the employees to demand your return, firing the board that tried to oust him, and then returning with absolute power". There's something to be said about that, lol. Probably not even Musk has that kind of power.
        unityByFreedom 3y ago
        That kind of "power" can turn on a dime. I'd be wary of it. In this case the mob learned they have influence when they work together. That doesn't mean they are loyal to Altman, rather that they are influential when united.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        So he goes to extremely boring cringe meetups. Who cares?
        unityByFreedom 3y ago
        Hah I just read about "Bohemian Grove." Do techies consider that sacred ground because Oppenheimer discussed the atomic bomb there? The idol worship present in SV is so thick I can hardly see anything else.
        jwoq9118 3y ago
        This is entirely subjective. Hope you can see how this isn’t exactly a strong argument.
        tptacek 3y ago
        I'm still trying to figure out what the argument is.
  - mplewis 3y ago
    If you think this AI hypejerk is where actual power comes from, you’re deluding yourself into thinking Silicon Valley is the source of actual societal power.
- samstave 3y ago
  I care in that we are at one of the historic inflection points in tech history - so I waant a very salient truth as to what decisions (and by whom) are steering what is going to be the next era in the information age. I love it. So, what I care about is a true lens into how we will be getting to the next step in the path. Thats all I care about... And obviously SA is a master at ensuring the engineers in his harem are well fed (paid). But its really important to note who his closest bodies are in his orbit. There is no question about Thiels propensity for imbuing his views in his interests - and, personally, I'd really like to know what SA's goals and views and desires are especially WRT how they are colored by those he trusts, or advises him, such as Thiel. Its critically important to see the path ahead - because there is no going back from the level of entanglement AI is causing, and will cause. I love how Tristan said it regarding AI, and where it is today >"It the worst it will ever be" (meaning its only going to get stronger and more entangled, and thus, this is the only optimal time to check our rudder) And SA and Thiel have a solid grasp on the inputs to that rudder. I hope that all the youngin's in tech (like the actual teenagers, like my children) are really paying attention to where we are in tech history with AI in general - and with OpenAI in particular - as SA can attempt to look like a Carnegie but actually be a Rockefeller.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    I do a lot of local politics work now, which means I pay attention to a lot of arguments that are isomorphic to these HN kinds of arguments, but that are about zoning or the kind of materials we're using to pave roads or whatever. This thread resembles to me nothing so much as the vibe in a debate about whether a neighboring municipality should be allowed to build a McDonalds right on our border. Strong opinions all around, lots of projected consequences, but in the end we don't have a say, there's nothing we can do about it directly.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      Of course you have a say. Many policies are made above the municipal level, and California is a good example of a place where people eventually got tired of not having a say in zoning decisions of neighboring municipalities and did something about it. And beyond a direct say any person of course can be an advocate for anything. And should be, if it affects their society. Not sure you meant to make the exact opposite point of the one you stated, but convincing people they don't have a say, when in fact they do, is a pretty longstanding trick of the ruling class, so perhaps you've been convinced as well. Or are part of the ruling class.
- rjzzleep 3y ago
  > Why do you? I'm asking seriously Serious answer then. The reality is that the higher the pay, the less it stings when people screw you over. If OpenAI was a low pay startup, Ilya would probably feel a lot more bitter about what happened. People care for various reasons. You don't need to care, because you actually already have what I described above, because of three reasons: 1. the work that you did and the country in which you did it 2. the people you were surrounded with while you were doing it 3. the culture around it, especially the US is very vocal about what they achieve, which automatically became a huge (possibly) unintentional mutual marketing platform for you and your friends. There are plenty of security people that have contributed to the security community just as much as you, but make a fraction of the money. Good for you, honestly, but not everyone has had those opportunities. For many of us(I for example grew up in Germany as an immigrant), the predominant culture is to not invest in people like us(very different from the valley), and to make sure to constantly tell them that they can only be successful if they are good worker bees. It took someone convincing me to leave to the UK to realize that. I want to know and improve, because I have made several people and institutions rich or contributed to their fame, because of whatever work I did or whatever thing I reverse engineered, and got ultimately burned with zero credit. LLM's would exist with or without OpenAI, but it's absolutely fascinating that Sam how somehow managed to convince the world(outside of a big scientific and engineering niche) that ChatGPT would not have happened without him, but that conversely everyone at ChatGPT is disposable. Even if you don't care about Sam in general it may be worth caring about it in some fashion, when he's lobbying on Capitol Hill to limit access to non regulated AI. It's only natural for me to want to learn some of it, to at least protect myself in the future.
unityByFreedom 3y ago
> he just posted a thread on how much of a visionary he is The thread you linked is from 2020.

tptacek 3y ago

Then why do you care? I don't care, even enough to click on that. Why do you? I'm asking seriously.

CPLX 3y ago
Because understanding where actual power comes from in society and how it is wielded in practice is both interesting and substantive.
- tptacek 3y ago
  If this thread about (presumably) being a visionary constitutes the wielding of power, I dispute how much power is actually invested in this topic.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Sam Altman controls billions of dollars in assets, and attends Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove events. He's sort of the walking definition of social and economic power.
    - unityByFreedom 3y ago
      And yet, he nearly lost his job. None of us are perfect, nor are any of us better than any other. Let's cut the idolizing.
      - solardev 3y ago
        Not many from us can go from "nearly losing the job" to "getting 95% of the employees to demand your return, firing the board that tried to oust him, and then returning with absolute power". There's something to be said about that, lol. Probably not even Musk has that kind of power.
        unityByFreedom 3y ago
        That kind of "power" can turn on a dime. I'd be wary of it. In this case the mob learned they have influence when they work together. That doesn't mean they are loyal to Altman, rather that they are influential when united.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      So he goes to extremely boring cringe meetups. Who cares?
      - unityByFreedom 3y ago
        Hah I just read about "Bohemian Grove." Do techies consider that sacred ground because Oppenheimer discussed the atomic bomb there? The idol worship present in SV is so thick I can hardly see anything else.
      - jwoq9118 3y ago
        This is entirely subjective. Hope you can see how this isn’t exactly a strong argument.
        tptacek 3y ago
        I'm still trying to figure out what the argument is.
- mplewis 3y ago
  If you think this AI hypejerk is where actual power comes from, you’re deluding yourself into thinking Silicon Valley is the source of actual societal power.
samstave 3y ago
I care in that we are at one of the historic inflection points in tech history - so I waant a very salient truth as to what decisions (and by whom) are steering what is going to be the next era in the information age. I love it. So, what I care about is a true lens into how we will be getting to the next step in the path. Thats all I care about... And obviously SA is a master at ensuring the engineers in his harem are well fed (paid). But its really important to note who his closest bodies are in his orbit. There is no question about Thiels propensity for imbuing his views in his interests - and, personally, I'd really like to know what SA's goals and views and desires are especially WRT how they are colored by those he trusts, or advises him, such as Thiel. Its critically important to see the path ahead - because there is no going back from the level of entanglement AI is causing, and will cause. I love how Tristan said it regarding AI, and where it is today >"It the worst it will ever be" (meaning its only going to get stronger and more entangled, and thus, this is the only optimal time to check our rudder) And SA and Thiel have a solid grasp on the inputs to that rudder. I hope that all the youngin's in tech (like the actual teenagers, like my children) are really paying attention to where we are in tech history with AI in general - and with OpenAI in particular - as SA can attempt to look like a Carnegie but actually be a Rockefeller.
- tptacek 3y ago
  I do a lot of local politics work now, which means I pay attention to a lot of arguments that are isomorphic to these HN kinds of arguments, but that are about zoning or the kind of materials we're using to pave roads or whatever. This thread resembles to me nothing so much as the vibe in a debate about whether a neighboring municipality should be allowed to build a McDonalds right on our border. Strong opinions all around, lots of projected consequences, but in the end we don't have a say, there's nothing we can do about it directly.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Of course you have a say. Many policies are made above the municipal level, and California is a good example of a place where people eventually got tired of not having a say in zoning decisions of neighboring municipalities and did something about it. And beyond a direct say any person of course can be an advocate for anything. And should be, if it affects their society. Not sure you meant to make the exact opposite point of the one you stated, but convincing people they don't have a say, when in fact they do, is a pretty longstanding trick of the ruling class, so perhaps you've been convinced as well. Or are part of the ruling class.
rjzzleep 3y ago
> Why do you? I'm asking seriously Serious answer then. The reality is that the higher the pay, the less it stings when people screw you over. If OpenAI was a low pay startup, Ilya would probably feel a lot more bitter about what happened. People care for various reasons. You don't need to care, because you actually already have what I described above, because of three reasons: 1. the work that you did and the country in which you did it 2. the people you were surrounded with while you were doing it 3. the culture around it, especially the US is very vocal about what they achieve, which automatically became a huge (possibly) unintentional mutual marketing platform for you and your friends. There are plenty of security people that have contributed to the security community just as much as you, but make a fraction of the money. Good for you, honestly, but not everyone has had those opportunities. For many of us(I for example grew up in Germany as an immigrant), the predominant culture is to not invest in people like us(very different from the valley), and to make sure to constantly tell them that they can only be successful if they are good worker bees. It took someone convincing me to leave to the UK to realize that. I want to know and improve, because I have made several people and institutions rich or contributed to their fame, because of whatever work I did or whatever thing I reverse engineered, and got ultimately burned with zero credit. LLM's would exist with or without OpenAI, but it's absolutely fascinating that Sam how somehow managed to convince the world(outside of a big scientific and engineering niche) that ChatGPT would not have happened without him, but that conversely everyone at ChatGPT is disposable. Even if you don't care about Sam in general it may be worth caring about it in some fashion, when he's lobbying on Capitol Hill to limit access to non regulated AI. It's only natural for me to want to learn some of it, to at least protect myself in the future.

unityByFreedom 3y ago

> he just posted a thread on how much of a visionary he is The thread you linked is from 2020.