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Interesting that different society’s have such different levels of female participation in stem. I’d view that as evidence that society heavily influences these

by gmm1990 3y ago

Interesting that different society’s have such different levels of female participation in stem. I’d view that as evidence that society heavily influences these gender participation rates.

Manuel_D 3y ago
This is not at all what is described in the article. They don't have different levels of participation in STEM. Nearly every single country in the world has a majority male STEM participation. Most fall within a relatively tight band between 15 and 35%.
- gmm1990 3y ago
  The articles based on a questionable paper. 15 to 35 isn’t a tight band. The top of the range would have twice as many as the bottom.
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    Do you have a substantive criticisms of the paper? Or will you just proclaim that it's questionable without any elaboration? The possible ranges of representation are from 0% to 100%, but almost all fall within a band of 20%. This is a pretty tight band. Proportionality between the lowest and highest isn't that relevant. A range from 10-20% is still a wider band than 1% to 5%, even though the latter has a bigger proportional difference from the lowest to the highest data point. More importantly, there are zero examples of countries with 85%, 80%, or 75% women in STEM. But there's plenty of examples of countries with men of those levels of representation. If it were culturally or socially determined, we'd should see women's representation in that range among some societies.
    - gmm1990 3y ago
      https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/srichard/files/richardson_et_al_gender_equality_paradox.pdf https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/srichard/files/richardson_...
      - Manuel_D 3y ago
        Basically, that response just used a different metric for gender equality instead of GGGI and the negative correlation between gender equality and women's representation in STEM was less pronounced using the alternative metric for equality. Also, the response you linked did not account for women's overall higher rate of attending postsecondary education (and they try to argue that this is somehow a good thing). Stoet and Geary normalized for disparate rates of college attendance, which makes it more useful for exploring men's and women's relative interest in STEM. My point, though, is still reinforced by your linked study. There is no wide variance in gender representation in STEM. Nearly all countries fall within a band 20% wide (figure 1, page 3). Women's lower interest in STEM is indeed universal. The "wide variation" is from 1/5th to 1/3rd of STEM graduates. Not nothing, but by no means enough to suggest that the disparities in STEM are driven by culture to any significant degree.

Interesting that different society’s have such different levels of female participation in stem. I’d view that as evidence that society heavily influences these gender participation rates.

Manuel_D 3y ago

This is not at all what is described in the article. They don't have different levels of participation in STEM. Nearly every single country in the world has a majority male STEM participation. Most fall within a relatively tight band between 15 and 35%.

gmm1990 3y ago
The articles based on a questionable paper. 15 to 35 isn’t a tight band. The top of the range would have twice as many as the bottom.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  Do you have a substantive criticisms of the paper? Or will you just proclaim that it's questionable without any elaboration? The possible ranges of representation are from 0% to 100%, but almost all fall within a band of 20%. This is a pretty tight band. Proportionality between the lowest and highest isn't that relevant. A range from 10-20% is still a wider band than 1% to 5%, even though the latter has a bigger proportional difference from the lowest to the highest data point. More importantly, there are zero examples of countries with 85%, 80%, or 75% women in STEM. But there's plenty of examples of countries with men of those levels of representation. If it were culturally or socially determined, we'd should see women's representation in that range among some societies.
  - gmm1990 3y ago
    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/srichard/files/richardson_et_al_gender_equality_paradox.pdf https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/srichard/files/richardson_...
    - Manuel_D 3y ago
      Basically, that response just used a different metric for gender equality instead of GGGI and the negative correlation between gender equality and women's representation in STEM was less pronounced using the alternative metric for equality. Also, the response you linked did not account for women's overall higher rate of attending postsecondary education (and they try to argue that this is somehow a good thing). Stoet and Geary normalized for disparate rates of college attendance, which makes it more useful for exploring men's and women's relative interest in STEM. My point, though, is still reinforced by your linked study. There is no wide variance in gender representation in STEM. Nearly all countries fall within a band 20% wide (figure 1, page 3). Women's lower interest in STEM is indeed universal. The "wide variation" is from 1/5th to 1/3rd of STEM graduates. Not nothing, but by no means enough to suggest that the disparities in STEM are driven by culture to any significant degree.