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The headline is technically accurate but miscommunicates the conclusions we should draw. The subjects sniffed women’s “emotional” tears but the control was an o

The headline is technically accurate but miscommunicates the conclusions we should draw. The subjects sniffed women’s “emotional” tears but the control was an odourless liquid. Therefore what they actually validated was whether smelling something before engaging in a game designed to illicit anger reduced anger. What if they smelled perfume? The tears of a man? Non-emotional tears? Freshly cut grass? There’s zero evidence that women’s “emotional” tears were important.

nmarinov 3y ago
The first mention of this indeed does not specify that both are odorless but the second sentence does: > Before playing the game, the participants sniffed either female tears or a saline solution – both are odorless – but were not told what they were sniffing.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  If both are actually odorless then what's the mechanism? Magic? Obviously if there is any effect then the tears aren't actually odorless.
  - exizt88 3y ago
    Carbon Monoxide is odorless, but it’s effects are still real and well-understood.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      If they think it's being absorbed through the lungs then they should plug the subjects noses and have them inhale instead of sniffing it. But that's a far fetched assumption. Assuming the effect is real at all, it's almost certainly chemical detection through the nose. That's odor. That's why they had the subjects sniff it, because they obviously suspect that it's based on odor.
      - mrits 3y ago
        Let’s be real here. You were wrong and now trying to double down on the idea that odor isn’t detectable unless moving ingress into nostrils.
        _jal 3y ago
        Just wait until they find out that you can smell and taste with things other than your nose and mouth. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130710-how-our-organs-sniff-out-smells https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130710-how-our-organs-s...
        mhall 3y ago
        If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to smell it, does it make an odor?
        tentacleuno 3y ago
        Well, the chemicals are there, but nobody's there to interpret them as an odor... so sort of yes?
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        If tears are being detected by the brain, it's through chemicals from the tears traveling through the air and landing on sensors in your nose (or mouth); that is odor. If there is some mechanism other than odor by which humans might distinguish tears them from saline solution after sniffing them, please tell me. Odors also being detected with your tongue is irrelevant trivia which doesn't alter my conclusion. Sound can be heard through your chest but that's irrelevant trivia when somebody says "if there's no air to transmit pressure waves to your ears then there's no sound." Sound is transmitted through pressure waves in the air, and odors are transmitted through chemicals in the air. If you're hearing them with your ears or chest or smelling them with your nose or mouth makes no difference, the fact that any detection is evidently taking place shows that there is sound or odor involved. Furthermore, the researchers obviously suspect that the mechanism of detection is odor because they asked their subjects to sniff it. You don't ask subjects to sniff a thing unless you suspect odor of being involved. If researchers were studying the perception of magnetic fields, they wouldn't ask people to sniff the fields. Again, if there is any other plausible mechanism for detection, then tell me. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
graemep 3y ago
My first thought was whether: 1. women react the same way 2. men's tears have the same effect
- formerly_proven 3y ago
  Maybe but men don’t cry so your hypothesis is hard to validate.
- wil421 3y ago
  Babies produce a chemical in their heads that reduces aggressive behavior in males but does the opposite in females. It’s called HEX[1]. https://www.science.org/content/article/chemical-emitted-babies-could-make-men-more-docile-women-more-aggressive#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20identified%20an%20odorless,the%20Weizmann%20Institute%20of%20Science https://www.science.org/content/article/chemical-emitted-bab....

nmarinov 3y ago

The first mention of this indeed does not specify that both are odorless but the second sentence does: > Before playing the game, the participants sniffed either female tears or a saline solution – both are odorless – but were not told what they were sniffing.

mcpackieh 3y ago
If both are actually odorless then what's the mechanism? Magic? Obviously if there is any effect then the tears aren't actually odorless.
- exizt88 3y ago
  Carbon Monoxide is odorless, but it’s effects are still real and well-understood.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    If they think it's being absorbed through the lungs then they should plug the subjects noses and have them inhale instead of sniffing it. But that's a far fetched assumption. Assuming the effect is real at all, it's almost certainly chemical detection through the nose. That's odor. That's why they had the subjects sniff it, because they obviously suspect that it's based on odor.
    - mrits 3y ago
      Let’s be real here. You were wrong and now trying to double down on the idea that odor isn’t detectable unless moving ingress into nostrils.
      - _jal 3y ago
        Just wait until they find out that you can smell and taste with things other than your nose and mouth. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130710-how-our-organs-sniff-out-smells https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130710-how-our-organs-s...
      - mhall 3y ago
        If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to smell it, does it make an odor?
        tentacleuno 3y ago
        Well, the chemicals are there, but nobody's there to interpret them as an odor... so sort of yes?
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        If tears are being detected by the brain, it's through chemicals from the tears traveling through the air and landing on sensors in your nose (or mouth); that is odor. If there is some mechanism other than odor by which humans might distinguish tears them from saline solution after sniffing them, please tell me. Odors also being detected with your tongue is irrelevant trivia which doesn't alter my conclusion. Sound can be heard through your chest but that's irrelevant trivia when somebody says "if there's no air to transmit pressure waves to your ears then there's no sound." Sound is transmitted through pressure waves in the air, and odors are transmitted through chemicals in the air. If you're hearing them with your ears or chest or smelling them with your nose or mouth makes no difference, the fact that any detection is evidently taking place shows that there is sound or odor involved. Furthermore, the researchers obviously suspect that the mechanism of detection is odor because they asked their subjects to sniff it. You don't ask subjects to sniff a thing unless you suspect odor of being involved. If researchers were studying the perception of magnetic fields, they wouldn't ask people to sniff the fields. Again, if there is any other plausible mechanism for detection, then tell me. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

graemep 3y ago

My first thought was whether: 1. women react the same way 2. men's tears have the same effect

formerly_proven 3y ago
Maybe but men don’t cry so your hypothesis is hard to validate.
wil421 3y ago
Babies produce a chemical in their heads that reduces aggressive behavior in males but does the opposite in females. It’s called HEX[1]. https://www.science.org/content/article/chemical-emitted-babies-could-make-men-more-docile-women-more-aggressive#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20identified%20an%20odorless,the%20Weizmann%20Institute%20of%20Science https://www.science.org/content/article/chemical-emitted-bab....