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Wolfs are predators. A wolf kills about 20 deers every year. I understand that some people feel it's romantic to have these animals roam around, but to congratu

Wolfs are predators. A wolf kills about 20 deers every year. I understand that some people feel it's romantic to have these animals roam around, but to congratulate yourself on your empathy for allowing this to happen really is obscene.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
This is the natural order of things. Without predators deer/boar/etc populations explode and need controlling through hunting. This is exactly why hunters are unhappy where wolves have come back: the wolves eat the animals the hunters want to shoot.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  Why is it more natural for wolfs to kill deer then for hunters to kill deer and wolfs?
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Somebody has kill deer to avoid overpopulation. Humans kill deer for sport, wolves kill to eat them. Also wolves have a very positive effect on the ecosystem as whole. Just look up what happened in Yellowstone (of course you won’t)..
    - amadeuspagel 3y ago
      Humans also eat deer. What positive effect do wolves have on the ecosystem, other then killing deer, which humans could do just as well?
      - zeristor 3y ago
        the reduction in grazing pressure from deer, and the fact that deer avoid wolves gives trees the chance to grow. Deer eat the shoots of trees, and so enable a more reach ecological system to be sustained.
      - keep_reading 3y ago
        Wolves do a better job of culling the sick deer (or cattle)
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
        I’m sorry, are you trolling? I told you it had a positive effect on the whole ecosystem and that human hunters can’t replicate that (I won’t waste time describing this here just for you to ignore it, you can read it up)
zeristor 3y ago
Very handy in Scotland where there are far too many deer. Venison, venisoff. As Mr. Miyagi never said.
beardyw 3y ago
Lotka–Volterra equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...
- zeristor 3y ago
  This is an online simulator. https://sites.google.com/site/biologydarkow/ecology/predator-prey-simulation-of-the-lotka-volterra-model https://sites.google.com/site/biologydarkow/ecology/predator... It is a bit tricky to find the interesting combinations of the settings
cafard 3y ago
The deer population in the US, at least the eastern US, has been increasing since the mid-1930s. Largely this is because farms--where one might hunt--have been replaced by suburbs, which offer shelter and gardens. Because the overpopulation of deer is harmful to the vegetation, the US Park Service employees hunters every winter to shoot deer in Rock Creek Park at night.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
So let’s destroy all natural ecosystems and turn everything into farmland, managed forests or parks? Also (unless your comment is sarcasm/trolling) you do know that somebody has to kill those deer anyway (why is it any better if humans do it for sport) to avoid unsustainable population explosion
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  There is no natural ecosystem in central europe, if natural means untouched by humans. The question is not whether to destroy any such ecosystem, the question is whether to destroy the ecosystem of people who have farmed, hunted and herded there for millenia.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    > the ecosystem of people who have farmed, hunted and herded there for millenia. Not it’s not. They have already disappeared. Modern industrial farming has little to do with what people have been doing there for millennia. You can blame tractors, fertilizers, pesticides etc. for destroying traditional farming communities. Anyway, not that relevant because saying that wolves pose a existential threat to farmers is silly. The insignificant damage they case can be mitigated by using fencing, guards dogs etc. in combination with compensations provides by the state.
    - amadeuspagel 3y ago
      > Not it’s not. They have already disappeared. Modern industrial farming has little to do with what people have been doing there for millennia. You can blame tractors, fertilizers, pesticides etc. for destroying traditional farming communities. That's not how these communities themselves see it. They've adopted this technologies, and they haven't adopted wolves.

mytailorisrich 3y ago

This is the natural order of things. Without predators deer/boar/etc populations explode and need controlling through hunting. This is exactly why hunters are unhappy where wolves have come back: the wolves eat the animals the hunters want to shoot.

amadeuspagel 3y ago
Why is it more natural for wolfs to kill deer then for hunters to kill deer and wolfs?
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Somebody has kill deer to avoid overpopulation. Humans kill deer for sport, wolves kill to eat them. Also wolves have a very positive effect on the ecosystem as whole. Just look up what happened in Yellowstone (of course you won’t)..
  - amadeuspagel 3y ago
    Humans also eat deer. What positive effect do wolves have on the ecosystem, other then killing deer, which humans could do just as well?
    - zeristor 3y ago
      the reduction in grazing pressure from deer, and the fact that deer avoid wolves gives trees the chance to grow. Deer eat the shoots of trees, and so enable a more reach ecological system to be sustained.
    - keep_reading 3y ago
      Wolves do a better job of culling the sick deer (or cattle)
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      I’m sorry, are you trolling? I told you it had a positive effect on the whole ecosystem and that human hunters can’t replicate that (I won’t waste time describing this here just for you to ignore it, you can read it up)

zeristor 3y ago

Very handy in Scotland where there are far too many deer. Venison, venisoff. As Mr. Miyagi never said.

beardyw 3y ago

Lotka–Volterra equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...

zeristor 3y ago
This is an online simulator. https://sites.google.com/site/biologydarkow/ecology/predator-prey-simulation-of-the-lotka-volterra-model https://sites.google.com/site/biologydarkow/ecology/predator... It is a bit tricky to find the interesting combinations of the settings

cafard 3y ago

The deer population in the US, at least the eastern US, has been increasing since the mid-1930s. Largely this is because farms--where one might hunt--have been replaced by suburbs, which offer shelter and gardens. Because the overpopulation of deer is harmful to the vegetation, the US Park Service employees hunters every winter to shoot deer in Rock Creek Park at night.

ffgjgf1 3y ago

So let’s destroy all natural ecosystems and turn everything into farmland, managed forests or parks? Also (unless your comment is sarcasm/trolling) you do know that somebody has to kill those deer anyway (why is it any better if humans do it for sport) to avoid unsustainable population explosion

amadeuspagel 3y ago
There is no natural ecosystem in central europe, if natural means untouched by humans. The question is not whether to destroy any such ecosystem, the question is whether to destroy the ecosystem of people who have farmed, hunted and herded there for millenia.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > the ecosystem of people who have farmed, hunted and herded there for millenia. Not it’s not. They have already disappeared. Modern industrial farming has little to do with what people have been doing there for millennia. You can blame tractors, fertilizers, pesticides etc. for destroying traditional farming communities. Anyway, not that relevant because saying that wolves pose a existential threat to farmers is silly. The insignificant damage they case can be mitigated by using fencing, guards dogs etc. in combination with compensations provides by the state.
  - amadeuspagel 3y ago
    > Not it’s not. They have already disappeared. Modern industrial farming has little to do with what people have been doing there for millennia. You can blame tractors, fertilizers, pesticides etc. for destroying traditional farming communities. That's not how these communities themselves see it. They've adopted this technologies, and they haven't adopted wolves.