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Do you know how censorship and Balkanization work on Bluesky? On Mastodon this was quite extreme, as entire servers can block each other, without any involvemen

Do you know how censorship and Balkanization work on Bluesky? On Mastodon this was quite extreme, as entire servers can block each other, without any involvement from the individual user.

echelon 3y ago
This is why p2p will always be superior to federation. I don't want others making decisions for me. I'm okay with consuming an upstream block/filter list, but I ultimately want executive control over it.
- jghn 3y ago
  The thing that still grinds my gears about Mastodon is the concept of search is inherently broken. In Twitter I can search whatever and see all the old public posts from the start of time. On Mastodon, I'll get ... some stuff. With your model that wouldn't be an issue.
- caskstrength 3y ago
  People who want such experience just run their own instance.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    No because that doesn't solve the problem.
BryantD 3y ago
At the moment there’s no issue because there’s still only one server. De facto I can’t imagine any federated protocol that won’t enable servers to block each other, though.
dredmorbius 3y ago
FWIW, many Fediverse instances will be / are blocking Bluesky. Some instances and individuals will block Fediverse instances which federate with Bluesky.
- cubefox 3y ago
  This is so stupid. Individuals should decide whether they block something.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    If you use any of the major (or minor) email providers, you're implicitly buying into a system in which system operators, not individuals, determine what communications are or are not permitted. That decision-making is quite widely distributed, with email service providers both making their own realtime or near-realtime determinations at both individual message and and network-provider levels (e.g., IP- or netblock-based quality determinations), as well as third-party quality measurements such as Spamhaus and Senderbase / Ironport (long since part of Cisco / Talos). Increasingly even general Web traffic is subject to similar decisionmaking as with reCAPTCA, Cloudflare, and other services. Individual decisionmaking simply does not scale to billions (or under IPv6, vastly more) relationships. There's a give-and-take of blocking practices with Fediverse instances. I'm on a smaller instance maintained by someone I've known online for a decade or so, and who is highly principled in their decisions, though some do rub a bit raw on me. I've brought this up, and may yet decamp to another instance (or spin my own), though I'll also note that blocking fuckwits is a highly effective s/n preservation strategy. (The concept is highlighted in my Fediverse profile as a pinned post: <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/104371585950783019 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/104371585950783019>). And I've been online for going on 40 years. Many of the naive presumptions of kumbaya and universal brotherhood have proved grossly misdirected. I'd once subscribed to many of them. I've grown up (or old).
    - cubefox 3y ago
      The difference is that in case of email we are talking about clear cases of spam. In the case of Fediverse instances the reason for blocking are ideological differences. That's exactly what should be left to the individual, as the opinions diverge a lot. For spam everyone agrees that it should be blocked.
      - 3y ago

Do you know how censorship and Balkanization work on Bluesky? On Mastodon this was quite extreme, as entire servers can block each other, without any involvement from the individual user.

echelon 3y ago

This is why p2p will always be superior to federation. I don't want others making decisions for me. I'm okay with consuming an upstream block/filter list, but I ultimately want executive control over it.

jghn 3y ago
The thing that still grinds my gears about Mastodon is the concept of search is inherently broken. In Twitter I can search whatever and see all the old public posts from the start of time. On Mastodon, I'll get ... some stuff. With your model that wouldn't be an issue.
caskstrength 3y ago
People who want such experience just run their own instance.
- cubefox 3y ago
  No because that doesn't solve the problem.

BryantD 3y ago

At the moment there’s no issue because there’s still only one server. De facto I can’t imagine any federated protocol that won’t enable servers to block each other, though.

dredmorbius 3y ago

FWIW, many Fediverse instances will be / are blocking Bluesky. Some instances and individuals will block Fediverse instances which federate with Bluesky.

cubefox 3y ago
This is so stupid. Individuals should decide whether they block something.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  If you use any of the major (or minor) email providers, you're implicitly buying into a system in which system operators, not individuals, determine what communications are or are not permitted. That decision-making is quite widely distributed, with email service providers both making their own realtime or near-realtime determinations at both individual message and and network-provider levels (e.g., IP- or netblock-based quality determinations), as well as third-party quality measurements such as Spamhaus and Senderbase / Ironport (long since part of Cisco / Talos). Increasingly even general Web traffic is subject to similar decisionmaking as with reCAPTCA, Cloudflare, and other services. Individual decisionmaking simply does not scale to billions (or under IPv6, vastly more) relationships. There's a give-and-take of blocking practices with Fediverse instances. I'm on a smaller instance maintained by someone I've known online for a decade or so, and who is highly principled in their decisions, though some do rub a bit raw on me. I've brought this up, and may yet decamp to another instance (or spin my own), though I'll also note that blocking fuckwits is a highly effective s/n preservation strategy. (The concept is highlighted in my Fediverse profile as a pinned post: <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/104371585950783019 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/104371585950783019>). And I've been online for going on 40 years. Many of the naive presumptions of kumbaya and universal brotherhood have proved grossly misdirected. I'd once subscribed to many of them. I've grown up (or old).
  - cubefox 3y ago
    The difference is that in case of email we are talking about clear cases of spam. In the case of Fediverse instances the reason for blocking are ideological differences. That's exactly what should be left to the individual, as the opinions diverge a lot. For spam everyone agrees that it should be blocked.
    - 3y ago