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Google doesn’t really have much of a track record in real breakthroughs, does it? It was built on its founders’ initial application of an eigenvector centralit

Google doesn’t really have much of a track record in real breakthroughs, does it? It was built on its founders’ initial application of an eigenvector centrality algorithm to web search. The main innovation there was the application, not the algorithm - it was innovation more than invention. Since then, perhaps the most technically impressive thing I’m aware of that Google has actually productized is their language translation system. But again, that was primarily innovation that built on existing technology and access to a lot of data, hardware, and distribution capability. > Just a few years ago it was the place to be and our PhD students were dying to work there. Wasn’t that mainly because of money and the collection of smart people you mention, bought by that money? Which is not the same thing as a record of achievement. I admit I could be wrong, I’m open to being corrected.

hahajk 3y ago
I believe Google Maps invented AJAX. Google Docs I think was actually acquired, but it was definitely ahead of its time.
- mauricioc 3y ago
  Microsoft invented Ajax/XMLHttpRequest for Outlook Web Access.
  - magospietato 3y ago
    Microsoft invented XHR for use in Outlook Web Access. The Gmail/GMaps teams developed that technology into AJAX.
    - mauricioc 3y ago
      This makes it seem like they invented XHR and did nothing with it, but Outlook Web Access already used XHR for dynamic/asynchronous update of an email web interface context four years before Gmail. If your claim is that Google popularized the ideas behind Ajax, then I'll happily agree: The term Ajax was invented outside Google [0] to describe Gmail front-end inner workings. My first contact with Ajax-like technologies was certainly Gmail in 2004 and not OWA in 2000, so I am not denying the merits of popularization. But I think even saying Google "developed the technology into" Ajax is unfair to OWA, given that Microsoft was pushing the other components of Ajax for a lot longer as DHTML (which led to standardizing DOM [1]; document.all anyone?) and OWA used DHTML+XHR, which was at the time essentially a non-cross-browser version of Ajax (props to Mozilla for implementing a compatible version of XHR and shipping it as part of Mozilla 1.0 in 2002). I won't argue for Microsoft any further, though, because the "cross-browser" part is key. The fact that they invented and shipped these things in IE with no effort to standardize them (as part of their embrace, extend, extinguish approach) was a big headache for cross-browser compatibility. Google gets most of the credit for Ajax because web developers hated Microsoft's approach to the web at the time (for very good reason). It is interesting to compare Microsoft's behavior back then with Google's current approach of flooding standards bodies with (at times half-baked) proposals. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150910072359/http://adaptivepath.org/ideas/ajax-new-approach-web-applications/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150910072359/http://adaptivepa... [1] https://www.w3.org/DOM/faq.html#DHTML-DOM https://www.w3.org/DOM/faq.html#DHTML-DOM
- yobbo 3y ago
  The maps UX (zoomable infinite scrolling map) was implemented independently previously to maps, which was originally built by an australian start up (?) iirc before being acquired by google. The term "AJAX" was coined around 2005 though. Before XMLHttpRequest there were iframe hacks. Most early stuff didn't really work due to browser incompatibilities and bad security.
- piva00 3y ago
  Nope, I was using XmlHttpRequest back in 2003 (through ActiveX) for some intranet where clients used IE5. Might have popularised the concept but the technique predates GMaps for at least 3-4 years.
- antonvs 3y ago
  Aside from the fact that Google didn’t invent AJAX, it was trivial technology. It wasn’t some kind of amazing breakthrough, it was simply a workaround for explicitly designed limitations on prior technology. What AJAX did could trivially be done by any programmer with the ability to write networking code. It’s just that the browser environment placed artificial constraints on that. But anyway, Google didn’t even invent AJAX.
deepnotderp 3y ago
Something something transformers
- antonvs 3y ago
  I’m not familiar with what you’re referring to, but I’d guess it has to do with some academic breakthrough in transformers. But that wasn’t something they productized, was it? The comment I replied to seemed to be lamenting Google falling behind in the market, talking about closed models and Bard. My point is that Google doesn’t have much of a track record of homegrown invention that they’ve successfully brought to market. That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t have good R&D, but that can be a lot like a university: all sorts of cool ideas and interesting discoveries, but it doesn’t necessarily translate directly into something useful.

hahajk 3y ago

I believe Google Maps invented AJAX. Google Docs I think was actually acquired, but it was definitely ahead of its time.

mauricioc 3y ago
Microsoft invented Ajax/XMLHttpRequest for Outlook Web Access.
- magospietato 3y ago
  Microsoft invented XHR for use in Outlook Web Access. The Gmail/GMaps teams developed that technology into AJAX.
  - mauricioc 3y ago
    This makes it seem like they invented XHR and did nothing with it, but Outlook Web Access already used XHR for dynamic/asynchronous update of an email web interface context four years before Gmail. If your claim is that Google popularized the ideas behind Ajax, then I'll happily agree: The term Ajax was invented outside Google [0] to describe Gmail front-end inner workings. My first contact with Ajax-like technologies was certainly Gmail in 2004 and not OWA in 2000, so I am not denying the merits of popularization. But I think even saying Google "developed the technology into" Ajax is unfair to OWA, given that Microsoft was pushing the other components of Ajax for a lot longer as DHTML (which led to standardizing DOM [1]; document.all anyone?) and OWA used DHTML+XHR, which was at the time essentially a non-cross-browser version of Ajax (props to Mozilla for implementing a compatible version of XHR and shipping it as part of Mozilla 1.0 in 2002). I won't argue for Microsoft any further, though, because the "cross-browser" part is key. The fact that they invented and shipped these things in IE with no effort to standardize them (as part of their embrace, extend, extinguish approach) was a big headache for cross-browser compatibility. Google gets most of the credit for Ajax because web developers hated Microsoft's approach to the web at the time (for very good reason). It is interesting to compare Microsoft's behavior back then with Google's current approach of flooding standards bodies with (at times half-baked) proposals. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150910072359/http://adaptivepath.org/ideas/ajax-new-approach-web-applications/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150910072359/http://adaptivepa... [1] https://www.w3.org/DOM/faq.html#DHTML-DOM https://www.w3.org/DOM/faq.html#DHTML-DOM
yobbo 3y ago
The maps UX (zoomable infinite scrolling map) was implemented independently previously to maps, which was originally built by an australian start up (?) iirc before being acquired by google. The term "AJAX" was coined around 2005 though. Before XMLHttpRequest there were iframe hacks. Most early stuff didn't really work due to browser incompatibilities and bad security.
piva00 3y ago
Nope, I was using XmlHttpRequest back in 2003 (through ActiveX) for some intranet where clients used IE5. Might have popularised the concept but the technique predates GMaps for at least 3-4 years.
antonvs 3y ago
Aside from the fact that Google didn’t invent AJAX, it was trivial technology. It wasn’t some kind of amazing breakthrough, it was simply a workaround for explicitly designed limitations on prior technology. What AJAX did could trivially be done by any programmer with the ability to write networking code. It’s just that the browser environment placed artificial constraints on that. But anyway, Google didn’t even invent AJAX.

deepnotderp 3y ago

Something something transformers

antonvs 3y ago
I’m not familiar with what you’re referring to, but I’d guess it has to do with some academic breakthrough in transformers. But that wasn’t something they productized, was it? The comment I replied to seemed to be lamenting Google falling behind in the market, talking about closed models and Bard. My point is that Google doesn’t have much of a track record of homegrown invention that they’ve successfully brought to market. That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t have good R&D, but that can be a lot like a university: all sorts of cool ideas and interesting discoveries, but it doesn’t necessarily translate directly into something useful.