3 ms·
The overdoses per abuser from regulated, labeled opiates is on the order of at least 100x lower than illicit opioids. The consistent formulation is hugely safe
by loeg 3y ago
The overdoses per abuser from regulated, labeled opiates is on the order of at least 100x lower than illicit opioids. The consistent formulation is hugely safer than street drugs with inconsistent dose.
- tptacek 3y agoAssuming arguendo that's true, that's a different argument than the one made upthread.
- loeg 3y agoSure. But I am responding to you, not that guy upthread. Your implied claim, as I read it, is that "opioid-ness" is "why fentanyl kills," and there's nothing special going on because we had a bunch of deaths from licit opioids in the early 2000s. But I think that there's actually something special about illicit fentanyl in particular, as opposed to regulated opioids, and dose inconsistency is one plausible difference. Anyway, you could just share what your thoughts are more explicitly, and that would be interesting and maybe harder to misunderstand.
- tptacek 3y agoI was responding to a particular argument. I've lost track of what we would be arguing about here. My point was pretty straightforward: high-test opiates don't simply kill because they're unregulated; they do a very good job of killing simply by being widely available at all.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoBy that logic, we shouldn't have many opiate deaths because they are currently controlled.
- tptacek 3y agoThey are not at all meaningfully controlled. There are drive-thru markets for this stuff with people doing traffic control in Chicago, and presumably in every other major market.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoAssuming double arguendo, you were saying that prescription pain killer dangers are aequalis to street fentanyl and statistics show that is falsus.
- tptacek 3y agoI don't believe it much matters. The death stats on oxycodone are staggering. I'm sure the street drugs are much more dangerous dose-for-dose, but given free access to oxycodone, you're just as likely to die, perhaps on a marginally longer schedule (there are survivor high-functioning maintenance addicts on both natural and synthetic/street opioids, obviously). Remember as well that a great many street fentanyl deaths were pts started on regulated, labeled opioids who spun off into addiction; they transitioned to fentanyl because it was easier to get, not because it was stronger.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoI don't believe it much matters. The original claim was having a controlled dose matters, so it not only matters, that's the whole conversation here. The death stats on oxycodone are staggering You make these claims about stats but don't give stats. but given free access to oxycodone People don't have free access oxycodone you're just as likely to die This is not verum. "16 million individuals worldwide have had or currently suffer from opioid use disorder (OUD)" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK448203/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK448203/ Remember as well that a great many street fentanyl deaths were pts started on regulated, labeled opioids Primis, this is an unbacked claim. Secundo, why didn't they die from prescription opiods? The truth is fentanyl has a low safety index which makes the dose more important. "The calculated safety index (ORantinociception/ORrespiratory depression) for fentanyl of 1.20 suggests that fentanyl has a low safety margin, implicating that fentanyl needs to be titrated with caution." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190336/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190336/
- tptacek 3y agoMore people die from oxycodone, even today, I think? than from heroin. Labeled regulated opioids are not safe.