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We don't call China "中国," so why are we calling Turkey "Turkiye"?

by cbeach 3y ago

mc32 3y ago
In English it’s Turkey, in Turkish it’s the other spelling with diaerisis, which don’t exist in English. It’s as silly as suddenly spelling Germany like they do in German. However people are free to use whatever word for a country they want.
alephnerd 3y ago
Czechia doesn't exist. It should be the Czech Republic! Macedonia will never be North Macedonia! Greece, NATO, and EU ascension be damned! Rename Eswatini to Swaziland! Zaire shall live on! /s Why the double standard for Turkiye? It's just pure racism.
- junofan 3y ago
  > Why the double standard for Turkiye? It's just pure racism. It’s Türkiye, not Turkiye: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states/turkiye https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states/turkiye I don’t appreciate being called racist.
- axus 3y ago
  My keyboard doesn't have the special u
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Hold the U. Helps with other languages like Czech, Vietnamese, French, etc.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  How a country is called in a given language has complex, often historical causes[0], if not merely phonetic. In Europe alone, the names of other European countries given by various European languages often departs from the name countries use themselves. Why you chose to assume the worst of someone and make a baseless accusation of racism, I don't know, but it isn't charitable, and frankly, the accusation sounds ridiculous. [0] One of my favorites. Consider that in Polish, Germany is called "Niemcy", which ultimately comes from the Protoslavic word for "foreigner", which itself comes from "mute one" ("niemy" in Polish). Compare this with "Słowianie" (Slavs) from "słowo" ("word"), thus those whose speech is intelligible to us, versus those whose speech isn't (compare this with the Greek etymology for "barbarian").
tux3 3y ago
Mostly because they asked. We don't have to rehash the whole reasons here, Wikipedia already spilled endless pixels arguing both viewpoints, with the expected culture war arguments and colorful comparisons that keep those discussions spicy Do whatever you want. Let's just not derail every thread when you see someone on the opposite side, we know how that ends
- samstave 3y ago
  >Mostly because they asked. Actually, I thought this was really classy of them to actually announce/ask the world that they would please call them Turkiye. Doesn't bother me - but I thought it was interesting that they actually asked. I have a light interest in the etymology of naming of places and countries. There was a really interesting book I perused in a book store, which was the origin of place-names for all places in California. 90% of place names are by the first/most documented land owner. Lots of airport codes are named after the original farm fields that were used as strips, and those were named after the farm/land owners. (or after pilots who died)
  - tux3 3y ago
    That airport code thing is neat! What's the name of the book, out of curiosity?
    - samstave 3y ago
      https://a.co/d/5deXKRs https://a.co/d/5deXKRs There are a couple other "california place names" but this was the one I skimmed in a "how to read a book" fashion, so I managed to retain quite a bit from it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kibwen 3y ago
You can romanize it however you want, "Turkiye" is what diplomats use in order to be diplomatic. I'm sure if the CCP asked for "China" to be romanized as "Zhongguo" in official communication then they'd oblige just as well.
turquoisevar 3y ago
That has less to do with Erdoğan specifically and more so with colonialism or, more precisely, reckoning with it. A lot of countries and people, in particular ones that were colonized, are known by exonyms. Names chosen/given by outsiders. In some cases, these names don’t even make sense, or they might even be pejorative. So, in recent years, there’s been a push to use the names chosen by the people to whom it pertains. If only as a recognition of self-determination. Türkiye, while not necessarily being subjected to colonization, capitalized on this by virtue of Erdoğan putting out a diplomatic request to other countries to be called Türkiye, and pretty much everyone acquiesced. In his case, it was more a matter of pride and annoyance that Turkey was a homonym of the name for the Thanksgiving bird[0]. So, all in all, I’d say it’s a good development, even if, in Türkiye’s instance, it’s for less noble reasons. Quick fun facts: 1) while the US State Department accepted the change in spelling, they’ll still use the English pronunciation[1] 2) The Thanksgiving bird is named differently in various languages after the country/region the speakers of that language thought it originated from; e.g., Turkey in English because they thought it came from Turkey, Hindi in Turkish, and Kalkoen in Dutch respectively named after “Hindistan” (Turkish for India) and Calcutta, etc.[2] 0: https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/03/middleeast/turkey-name-change-mime-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/03/middleeast/turkey-name-change... 1: https://apnews.com/article/politics-turkey-us-department-of-the-treasury-myanmar-mevlut-cavusoglu-9b9ef9599c5420f325c21232d9ffdbf4 https://apnews.com/article/politics-turkey-us-department-of-... There was a source on the State Department website that instructed on the old pronunciation, but I can’t find the link anymore 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)?wprov=sfti1#Names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)?wprov=sfti1#Name...
crabsand 3y ago
As a Turk I'm still calling the country Turkey but most foreigners prefer Türkiye. Maybe it looks cool. You can continue to call it as usual, I don't think no one will be offended by it :)
snapplebobapple 3y ago
I call China "squiggle squiggle" out of respect.........

We don't call China "中国," so why are we calling Turkey "Turkiye"?

by cbeach 3y ago

We don't call China "中国," so why are we calling Turkey "Turkiye"?

mc32 3y ago

In English it’s Turkey, in Turkish it’s the other spelling with diaerisis, which don’t exist in English. It’s as silly as suddenly spelling Germany like they do in German. However people are free to use whatever word for a country they want.

alephnerd 3y ago

Czechia doesn't exist. It should be the Czech Republic! Macedonia will never be North Macedonia! Greece, NATO, and EU ascension be damned! Rename Eswatini to Swaziland! Zaire shall live on! /s Why the double standard for Turkiye? It's just pure racism.

junofan 3y ago
> Why the double standard for Turkiye? It's just pure racism. It’s Türkiye, not Turkiye: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states/turkiye https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states/turkiye I don’t appreciate being called racist.
axus 3y ago
My keyboard doesn't have the special u
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Hold the U. Helps with other languages like Czech, Vietnamese, French, etc.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
How a country is called in a given language has complex, often historical causes[0], if not merely phonetic. In Europe alone, the names of other European countries given by various European languages often departs from the name countries use themselves. Why you chose to assume the worst of someone and make a baseless accusation of racism, I don't know, but it isn't charitable, and frankly, the accusation sounds ridiculous. [0] One of my favorites. Consider that in Polish, Germany is called "Niemcy", which ultimately comes from the Protoslavic word for "foreigner", which itself comes from "mute one" ("niemy" in Polish). Compare this with "Słowianie" (Slavs) from "słowo" ("word"), thus those whose speech is intelligible to us, versus those whose speech isn't (compare this with the Greek etymology for "barbarian").

tux3 3y ago

Mostly because they asked. We don't have to rehash the whole reasons here, Wikipedia already spilled endless pixels arguing both viewpoints, with the expected culture war arguments and colorful comparisons that keep those discussions spicy Do whatever you want. Let's just not derail every thread when you see someone on the opposite side, we know how that ends

samstave 3y ago
>Mostly because they asked. Actually, I thought this was really classy of them to actually announce/ask the world that they would please call them Turkiye. Doesn't bother me - but I thought it was interesting that they actually asked. I have a light interest in the etymology of naming of places and countries. There was a really interesting book I perused in a book store, which was the origin of place-names for all places in California. 90% of place names are by the first/most documented land owner. Lots of airport codes are named after the original farm fields that were used as strips, and those were named after the farm/land owners. (or after pilots who died)
- tux3 3y ago
  That airport code thing is neat! What's the name of the book, out of curiosity?
  - samstave 3y ago
    https://a.co/d/5deXKRs https://a.co/d/5deXKRs There are a couple other "california place names" but this was the one I skimmed in a "how to read a book" fashion, so I managed to retain quite a bit from it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kibwen 3y ago

You can romanize it however you want, "Turkiye" is what diplomats use in order to be diplomatic. I'm sure if the CCP asked for "China" to be romanized as "Zhongguo" in official communication then they'd oblige just as well.

turquoisevar 3y ago

That has less to do with Erdoğan specifically and more so with colonialism or, more precisely, reckoning with it. A lot of countries and people, in particular ones that were colonized, are known by exonyms. Names chosen/given by outsiders. In some cases, these names don’t even make sense, or they might even be pejorative. So, in recent years, there’s been a push to use the names chosen by the people to whom it pertains. If only as a recognition of self-determination. Türkiye, while not necessarily being subjected to colonization, capitalized on this by virtue of Erdoğan putting out a diplomatic request to other countries to be called Türkiye, and pretty much everyone acquiesced. In his case, it was more a matter of pride and annoyance that Turkey was a homonym of the name for the Thanksgiving bird[0]. So, all in all, I’d say it’s a good development, even if, in Türkiye’s instance, it’s for less noble reasons. Quick fun facts: 1) while the US State Department accepted the change in spelling, they’ll still use the English pronunciation[1] 2) The Thanksgiving bird is named differently in various languages after the country/region the speakers of that language thought it originated from; e.g., Turkey in English because they thought it came from Turkey, Hindi in Turkish, and Kalkoen in Dutch respectively named after “Hindistan” (Turkish for India) and Calcutta, etc.[2] 0: https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/03/middleeast/turkey-name-change-mime-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/03/middleeast/turkey-name-change... 1: https://apnews.com/article/politics-turkey-us-department-of-the-treasury-myanmar-mevlut-cavusoglu-9b9ef9599c5420f325c21232d9ffdbf4 https://apnews.com/article/politics-turkey-us-department-of-... There was a source on the State Department website that instructed on the old pronunciation, but I can’t find the link anymore 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)?wprov=sfti1#Names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)?wprov=sfti1#Name...

crabsand 3y ago

As a Turk I'm still calling the country Turkey but most foreigners prefer Türkiye. Maybe it looks cool. You can continue to call it as usual, I don't think no one will be offended by it :)

snapplebobapple 3y ago

I call China "squiggle squiggle" out of respect.........