5 ms·

Everything I've seen from Musk makes me believe that he wants to win, on his terms, full stop. The undermining of public will to invest in public transportation

by Kapura 3y ago

Everything I've seen from Musk makes me believe that he wants to win, on his terms, full stop. The undermining of public will to invest in public transportation is real. A functioning subway and rail system in LA would dramatically cut down on the number of cars on the roads, which would be reflected in fewer cars sold. This fairly straightforward and logical: Musk loses if there are more trains built. He also didn't try to build something better; he floated an idea for something worse. Transportation doesn't need some "new technology" to solve the problems of moving people around; trains have existed for a very long time now.

kgwxd 3y ago
> he wants to win, on his terms He wants full control over transportation and communication infrastructure. It's really just that simple. Doesn't matter what it cost, profit (for shareholders at least) has never been the primary goal.
grecy 3y ago
> A functioning subway and rail system in LA would dramatically cut down on the number of cars on the roads, which would be reflected in fewer cars sold. This fairly straightforward and logical: Musk loses if there are more trains built. You're honestly saying that reduced cars, and therefore Tesla sales in one city in one country is going to hurt Tesla/Musk? Do you realize the Tesla Model Y is now the second best selling vehicle across the entire US, and the best selling car in the entire world? [1] One city in one country is insignificant at best. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev-record-world-bestselling-car-electric https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev...
- dblohm7 3y ago
  Is it? California's population is roughly the same as all of Canada's.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > A functioning subway and rail system in LA > California's population Goalposts go in the ground. They stay fixed in place.
  - keep_reading 3y ago
    Yes, it is. Do you think that everyone who would ride the train can afford a Tesla or any other new car? Of course not
Workaccount2 3y ago
As soon as traffic becomes reasonable because of extensive public transportation...people will go back to using cars. Really the only perk of public transport is not having to deal with traffic and parking. But as soon as traffic and parking are not an issue, people will always prefer cars. I mean, I'd love it if everyone took the train to work. Then I could zip right in using my own comfy car and park right next to my job.
- oarsinsync 3y ago
  > As soon as traffic becomes reasonable because of extensive public transportation... City councils can start doing the inverse of what they’ve been doing. Traffic increases, so roads are widened, more parking is created, leading to more cars, and traffic increases. As traffic decreases, roads can be changed to reduce the focus on cars, and increase the focus on other forms of transport / pedestrians / additional commerce, which then serves to discourage further traffic because … there’s nowhere to create more space for cars anymore. See various European major cities (e.g. London, or less so, Madrid) for examples of this happening in real time. You can’t zip in and park next to work if there’s only a single lane of one way traffic permitted on each road, and there’s only 100 parking spaces within a 5 min walk of your office (and about 10,000 people working in that area)
  - yardstick 3y ago
    Exactly this. In London they have even reduced the number of car parks new apartment buildings are allocated. One place I looked at only had ~20 parks for ~80 flats. They can only do this because there’s a great public transport system in place.
- shafyy 3y ago
  Have you ever lived in a city or country with a well-functioning public transportation network? It doesn't sound like it. In such a context, the only reasons 99% of people prefer cars / vans is: 1) cost, 2) if you need to transport big stuff, 3) if you need the flexibility 2) and 3) are only true for a small subset of people, e.g. for handymen or people who transport stuff regularly 1) cost is the big one, and currently a big reason that trains are sometimes more expensive than cars, at least in Germany, is subsidies and external costs. Also, that people underestimate what owning and operating a car costs, and just compare the train ticket price to the gas price for a specific trip.

by Kapura 3y ago

kgwxd 3y ago

> he wants to win, on his terms He wants full control over transportation and communication infrastructure. It's really just that simple. Doesn't matter what it cost, profit (for shareholders at least) has never been the primary goal.

grecy 3y ago

> A functioning subway and rail system in LA would dramatically cut down on the number of cars on the roads, which would be reflected in fewer cars sold. This fairly straightforward and logical: Musk loses if there are more trains built. You're honestly saying that reduced cars, and therefore Tesla sales in one city in one country is going to hurt Tesla/Musk? Do you realize the Tesla Model Y is now the second best selling vehicle across the entire US, and the best selling car in the entire world? [1] One city in one country is insignificant at best. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev-record-world-bestselling-car-electric https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev...

dblohm7 3y ago
Is it? California's population is roughly the same as all of Canada's.
- grecy 3y ago
  > A functioning subway and rail system in LA > California's population Goalposts go in the ground. They stay fixed in place.
- keep_reading 3y ago
  Yes, it is. Do you think that everyone who would ride the train can afford a Tesla or any other new car? Of course not

Workaccount2 3y ago

As soon as traffic becomes reasonable because of extensive public transportation...people will go back to using cars. Really the only perk of public transport is not having to deal with traffic and parking. But as soon as traffic and parking are not an issue, people will always prefer cars. I mean, I'd love it if everyone took the train to work. Then I could zip right in using my own comfy car and park right next to my job.

oarsinsync 3y ago
> As soon as traffic becomes reasonable because of extensive public transportation... City councils can start doing the inverse of what they’ve been doing. Traffic increases, so roads are widened, more parking is created, leading to more cars, and traffic increases. As traffic decreases, roads can be changed to reduce the focus on cars, and increase the focus on other forms of transport / pedestrians / additional commerce, which then serves to discourage further traffic because … there’s nowhere to create more space for cars anymore. See various European major cities (e.g. London, or less so, Madrid) for examples of this happening in real time. You can’t zip in and park next to work if there’s only a single lane of one way traffic permitted on each road, and there’s only 100 parking spaces within a 5 min walk of your office (and about 10,000 people working in that area)
- yardstick 3y ago
  Exactly this. In London they have even reduced the number of car parks new apartment buildings are allocated. One place I looked at only had ~20 parks for ~80 flats. They can only do this because there’s a great public transport system in place.
shafyy 3y ago
Have you ever lived in a city or country with a well-functioning public transportation network? It doesn't sound like it. In such a context, the only reasons 99% of people prefer cars / vans is: 1) cost, 2) if you need to transport big stuff, 3) if you need the flexibility 2) and 3) are only true for a small subset of people, e.g. for handymen or people who transport stuff regularly 1) cost is the big one, and currently a big reason that trains are sometimes more expensive than cars, at least in Germany, is subsidies and external costs. Also, that people underestimate what owning and operating a car costs, and just compare the train ticket price to the gas price for a specific trip.