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> SpaceX or Tesla Tesla was already built before Musk came along. He has helped maintain it, granted. The second important company he built is OpenAI.

woooooo 3y ago
Tesla didn't even have a car before Musk came along, let alone a path to profitability. Whatever Musk's faults, it's really interesting to see people rewrite history.
- randomdata 3y ago
  The cars produced by Tesla were not already built before his time, but the company Tesla was. You do realize that companies and cars are different things, right?
  - woooooo 3y ago
    I can file an LLC by end of next week if I want. A sustainable, profitable automobile manufacturer would be slightly more difficult.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Yup. Like with anything, maintenance is more important than construction. But this discussion is explicitly about the build, not the maintenance. It is really interesting to see people rewrite what we're talking about.
      - woooooo 3y ago
        You're saying that the real innovation was filing some paperwork with the name tesla? Actually building any car at all was just maintenance?
        randomdata 3y ago
        There was no intent to say anything about innovation. That would be wildly off-topic. Can you point to where I spoke of it so that I can correct the comment for future readers?
        woooooo 3y ago
        You said "tesla was already built" before Musk came along. He joined in 2004. First car in 2008. Path to profitability starting in 2015. I'm inserting the opinion that maybe some of that stuff since 2004 was highly relevant to "building" Tesla.
        randomdata 3y ago
        I'm afraid I don't see anything about innovation in that quote. Did your copy/paste job get truncated?
- kibwen 3y ago
  > Whatever Musk's faults, it's really interesting to see people rewrite history. Interestingly, one of Musk's faults is dishonestly rewriting history to make himself appear to be a co-founder of Tesla.
  - woooooo 3y ago
    I'm not disputing that he has faults, it's just amazing how his real accomplishments get magnified or erased by dumb tweets in 2023, 10-15 years later. How many people fall for this stuff?
    - kibwen 3y ago
      > How many people fall for this stuff? And here are many of us saying the same about the people who fall for the cult of personality that surrounds this serial liar. To be fair, many of us are speaking with hindsight, as we too fell for it years ago, before his penchant for lying was laid bare.
      - woooooo 3y ago
        Sure but Tesla and SpaceX objectively exist in the real world. Landing a freaking rocket booster is now routine. It would be "cult of personality" to pretend the Musk did everything personally, obviously a lot of dedicated people contributed.. but it's just as dumb to act like he wasn't involved.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
And arguably the reason it got so successful is because he conned people into believing that the cars they were buying could drive themselves. SpaceX was luck. Luck he ran into the people he did (people like Zubrin) at that time he did. Luck that his Tesla con paid off.

woooooo 3y ago

Tesla didn't even have a car before Musk came along, let alone a path to profitability. Whatever Musk's faults, it's really interesting to see people rewrite history.

randomdata 3y ago
The cars produced by Tesla were not already built before his time, but the company Tesla was. You do realize that companies and cars are different things, right?
- woooooo 3y ago
  I can file an LLC by end of next week if I want. A sustainable, profitable automobile manufacturer would be slightly more difficult.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Yup. Like with anything, maintenance is more important than construction. But this discussion is explicitly about the build, not the maintenance. It is really interesting to see people rewrite what we're talking about.
    - woooooo 3y ago
      You're saying that the real innovation was filing some paperwork with the name tesla? Actually building any car at all was just maintenance?
      - randomdata 3y ago
        There was no intent to say anything about innovation. That would be wildly off-topic. Can you point to where I spoke of it so that I can correct the comment for future readers?
        woooooo 3y ago
        You said "tesla was already built" before Musk came along. He joined in 2004. First car in 2008. Path to profitability starting in 2015. I'm inserting the opinion that maybe some of that stuff since 2004 was highly relevant to "building" Tesla.
        randomdata 3y ago
        I'm afraid I don't see anything about innovation in that quote. Did your copy/paste job get truncated?
kibwen 3y ago
> Whatever Musk's faults, it's really interesting to see people rewrite history. Interestingly, one of Musk's faults is dishonestly rewriting history to make himself appear to be a co-founder of Tesla.
- woooooo 3y ago
  I'm not disputing that he has faults, it's just amazing how his real accomplishments get magnified or erased by dumb tweets in 2023, 10-15 years later. How many people fall for this stuff?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    > How many people fall for this stuff? And here are many of us saying the same about the people who fall for the cult of personality that surrounds this serial liar. To be fair, many of us are speaking with hindsight, as we too fell for it years ago, before his penchant for lying was laid bare.
    - woooooo 3y ago
      Sure but Tesla and SpaceX objectively exist in the real world. Landing a freaking rocket booster is now routine. It would be "cult of personality" to pretend the Musk did everything personally, obviously a lot of dedicated people contributed.. but it's just as dumb to act like he wasn't involved.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

And arguably the reason it got so successful is because he conned people into believing that the cars they were buying could drive themselves. SpaceX was luck. Luck he ran into the people he did (people like Zubrin) at that time he did. Luck that his Tesla con paid off.