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It seems quite clear that Musk dislikes public transport. He's publicly stated that he thinks it sucks and is inconvenient. If you think public transport is a b

It seems quite clear that Musk dislikes public transport. He's publicly stated that he thinks it sucks and is inconvenient. If you think public transport is a bad idea and you have the means to kill the project, it stands to reason you'd give it a shot. I don't disagree entirely. Public transport is kind of rubbish and, all else being equal (travel times, cost, availability, etc.), I'd prefer to be in my own car as it drives itself directly to my destination. However, it's a question of whether it's possible to build a city around cars without it turning into a horrible traffic-filled hellscape, and so far Musk doesn't seem to have found an alternative solution. Certainly, there's nothing better on the table that works with current technology.

RetpolineDrama 3y ago
>It seems quite clear that Musk dislikes public transport. He's publicly stated that he thinks it sucks and is inconvenient. A _lot_ of people share this sentiment, especially in America. I've said much of the same, and I don't own a car company or benefit from them.
creaturemachine 3y ago
SV's ideas have probably done more to worsen the hellscape of car-dependent cities. Think of how many single-occupancy cars are on the road right now simply delivering someone's lunch. Robo-taxies don't eliminate cars, only the driver. Now that your car drives itself you don't mind the extra 20 minute commute if you can use that time to churn through emails.
kmeisthax 3y ago
> Public transport is kind of rubbish Tell me you're an American without telling me you're an American[0]. If travel times, cost, and availability were actually equal, you'd pick public transit every time, because you don't have to focus on the cognitively stressful task of operating a motor vehicle. The reason why you care about being driven directly to your destination is specifically because the availability is so poor and gaps in the network get papered over with shittons of walking. The car has an analogous 'last mile' problem - i.e. finding a place to legally park it at your destination. We fixed that by mandating free parking everywhere. This pushes buildings away from one another, which means walking is even less viable, which exacerbates the traffic issue with lots of short trips. It also disaggregates traffic flows, which makes availability more expensive to produce, et cetera. [0] Or Canadian.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  If travel times, cost, and availability were actually equal, you'd pick public transit every time, because you don't have to focus on the cognitively stressful task of operating a motor vehicle. Sounds like a case of projection. Most people aren't especially intimidated by driving, and quite a few actually enjoy it. Far fewer people enjoy being packed onto a crowded bus or train with strangers (and those are the ones who inevitably sit next to me.) When people have the option to drive, and the money to do so, they usually prefer to.
- cameronh90 3y ago
  I’m British and live in London so I live almost exclusively by public transport, walking and cycling. Driving here is also hard work. Most people I know in the UK, particularly anyone with a family, prefer driving, which is why the “anti-car” policies have been so controversial. Also, by availability I didn’t mean goes directly to your destination as that’s really just a fundamental limitation of public transport. Frankly, I would probably always drive over taking the tube/train/bus if it wasn’t for the cost of congestion charge and parking. However, I recognise that driving is a selfish action with significant externalities, and I prefer to live somewhere that prioritises alternative forms of transportation. I vote for anyone who prioritises public transport and to restrict cars, because cars make cities ugly, noisy, dirty, unwalkable, and dangerous.
  - Gud 3y ago
    Public transport sucks in the UK too. Sure, London has its underground(and overground) but it’s so poorly designed it’s unbelievable. Come to Switzerland and you will see how it should work.
    - cameronh90 3y ago
      London and the UK in general have some of the best public transport in the world. It’s not the best for sure, and places like Switzerland, Japan and the Netherlands are better, but it’s the top 10 - and probably higher if you only consider countries with a large population. I agree it sucks, but the fact that it sucks and is also one of the best does suggest that good public transport is difficult. Note how all the places with half decent public transport tend to be rich. However even Switzerland (which I have been to) if I had to pick which form of transport has the most utility, I’d still choose the car. Public transport usually takes longer door-to-door and involves changes in modes or doesn’t quite get you to your destination. Also it isn’t 24/7. It’s great for commuting, not so great for other things. I guess nightlife though isn’t a huge concern in Zurich :)

RetpolineDrama 3y ago

>It seems quite clear that Musk dislikes public transport. He's publicly stated that he thinks it sucks and is inconvenient. A _lot_ of people share this sentiment, especially in America. I've said much of the same, and I don't own a car company or benefit from them.

creaturemachine 3y ago

SV's ideas have probably done more to worsen the hellscape of car-dependent cities. Think of how many single-occupancy cars are on the road right now simply delivering someone's lunch. Robo-taxies don't eliminate cars, only the driver. Now that your car drives itself you don't mind the extra 20 minute commute if you can use that time to churn through emails.

kmeisthax 3y ago

> Public transport is kind of rubbish Tell me you're an American without telling me you're an American[0]. If travel times, cost, and availability were actually equal, you'd pick public transit every time, because you don't have to focus on the cognitively stressful task of operating a motor vehicle. The reason why you care about being driven directly to your destination is specifically because the availability is so poor and gaps in the network get papered over with shittons of walking. The car has an analogous 'last mile' problem - i.e. finding a place to legally park it at your destination. We fixed that by mandating free parking everywhere. This pushes buildings away from one another, which means walking is even less viable, which exacerbates the traffic issue with lots of short trips. It also disaggregates traffic flows, which makes availability more expensive to produce, et cetera. [0] Or Canadian.

CamperBob2 3y ago
If travel times, cost, and availability were actually equal, you'd pick public transit every time, because you don't have to focus on the cognitively stressful task of operating a motor vehicle. Sounds like a case of projection. Most people aren't especially intimidated by driving, and quite a few actually enjoy it. Far fewer people enjoy being packed onto a crowded bus or train with strangers (and those are the ones who inevitably sit next to me.) When people have the option to drive, and the money to do so, they usually prefer to.
cameronh90 3y ago
I’m British and live in London so I live almost exclusively by public transport, walking and cycling. Driving here is also hard work. Most people I know in the UK, particularly anyone with a family, prefer driving, which is why the “anti-car” policies have been so controversial. Also, by availability I didn’t mean goes directly to your destination as that’s really just a fundamental limitation of public transport. Frankly, I would probably always drive over taking the tube/train/bus if it wasn’t for the cost of congestion charge and parking. However, I recognise that driving is a selfish action with significant externalities, and I prefer to live somewhere that prioritises alternative forms of transportation. I vote for anyone who prioritises public transport and to restrict cars, because cars make cities ugly, noisy, dirty, unwalkable, and dangerous.
- Gud 3y ago
  Public transport sucks in the UK too. Sure, London has its underground(and overground) but it’s so poorly designed it’s unbelievable. Come to Switzerland and you will see how it should work.
  - cameronh90 3y ago
    London and the UK in general have some of the best public transport in the world. It’s not the best for sure, and places like Switzerland, Japan and the Netherlands are better, but it’s the top 10 - and probably higher if you only consider countries with a large population. I agree it sucks, but the fact that it sucks and is also one of the best does suggest that good public transport is difficult. Note how all the places with half decent public transport tend to be rich. However even Switzerland (which I have been to) if I had to pick which form of transport has the most utility, I’d still choose the car. Public transport usually takes longer door-to-door and involves changes in modes or doesn’t quite get you to your destination. Also it isn’t 24/7. It’s great for commuting, not so great for other things. I guess nightlife though isn’t a huge concern in Zurich :)