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I feel that selling machines with 4GB nowadays is almost criminal. Even 8GB is bad if you can't upgrade. Anyway, I won't consider Acer because I had a terrible

I feel that selling machines with 4GB nowadays is almost criminal. Even 8GB is bad if you can't upgrade. Anyway, I won't consider Acer because I had a terrible experience with my son's laptop, because the hinges are just designed to break. To be fair, Acer fixed it even after the warranty had expired, but I can't get over how fragile the thing is.

zozbot234 3y ago
It depends. Win 11 and Mac OS really need more than 8GB for a comfortable UX, but if you're running a lightweight Linux desktop 4GB is okay for casual browsing, and 8GB lets you do a lot of things wrt. useful work. These would've been considered very respectable specs a decade ago. Make sure to avoid Electron apps and you're good.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  i share your optimism towards older hardware, but > Make sure to avoid Electron apps and you're good. not practical in a lot of office/productivity scenarios
  - worksonmine 3y ago
    > not practical in a lot of office/productivity scenarios Most of them come with a web version, use that, it's what I do and never have any problems. And if a company only provides an Electron app with no web version the choice of Electron makes no sense and their product should be considered a toy, not a tool.
- arp242 3y ago
  I ran on a 4G machine until very recently, and from experience I know you're right. You can still run "Electron apps" by the way, just not 6 of them, and not in combination with 28 Firefox tabs and full HD movie in the background. I did have some problems at times, but my dev usage isn't typical. I currently have 8G and I never have any problems. But also: these machines don't ship with a Linux desktop, lightweight or otherwise. You need to judge these machines as-sold, and almost all are sold with Windows as the only option, and 4G really does seem so low I would argue it's just not fit for purpose as a general purpose device, and really shouldn't be sold as such. It's like a car that's advertised as a general-purpose car that can only drive 80km/h. Is it a perfectly functional car? Sure! But also: not really what people expect, and not really fit for purpose. It's fine to sell this if people know what they're buying, but most people don't really know what they're buying with "4G RAM". Whether that is a sorry state of affairs or not doesn't matter, it's the reality of it.
  - cassepipe 3y ago
    Running linux mint on 4th generation i5 with 4GB RAM worked ok but 8GB was really more comfortable (as in never worry about RAM no more) and you can easily get some for cheap so it's definitely a quick easy win. But the dramatic speed difference ? HDD to SSD. That one upgrade allowed to be a dev on that old machine for three more years, until the motherboard died last year, RIP. I got almost 10 years out of that hardware with two cheap and easy upgrades. Nice. On the other hand I don't recommend hardware older that 2013 as you get in performances that are really not comfortable or capped upgrade : That one Late 2007 Intel Core 2 Duo MacBook was usable but Linux was a pain to install on, RAM was capped at 4GB and it was not comfortable performance wise. Cheaper hardware for the same era is barely usable for casual tasks. Another thing I didn't mention with the 4th generation i5 laptop is that the plastics are always the first thing that break and it's a bit of a pain to have to replace it although it's cheap. Went with Framework 12th generation now and I am definitely intending to keep 10 years too. It feels much more sturdy, it's very nice. You just need a nice physical shell with upgradeable parts imho.
  - InCityDreams 3y ago
    >It's like a car that's advertised as a general-purpose car that can only drive 80km/h. Trying to get the analogy: it can 'only' do 80, or there are lower speeds possible and 80 is the max? I wouldn't mind a car like that...to and from work at the moment the most i need is about 45 tops.
- d3w4s9 3y ago
  "casual browsing" A random person on the street probably has a dozen tabs on their home laptop with two Youtube videos open.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  XUbuntu as well.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
stainablesteel 3y ago
sorry to hear about that, i've been using an acer aspire v nitro as a workhorse for the last ~8 years and this thing is unstoppable
cassepipe 3y ago
I feel you. On all my older laptops, the physical shell (around hinges specifically) is always what has died first. Decided I would only go with a metal case after my old laptop's mobo died. Hesitated between a M1 and Framework but went with the Framework. It's sturdy and contrary to the M1, I'll be able to upgrade it (I could already if I wanted to actually). Maybe not the best performance per buck on the market but hey it's plenty enough, even for a dev, even for some gaming.
- jjice 3y ago
  I love my Framework 13. I've never had a non-work laptop with a metal chasis but I'm in heaven. 2.8 lbs too. Feels like those high quality machines I always envied in college when I was too cheap to buy a decent machine (which would have absolutely been worth it, looking back). Apple does have great build quality though. Having your machine _feel_ well built and sturdy really does feel good.

zozbot234 3y ago

It depends. Win 11 and Mac OS really need more than 8GB for a comfortable UX, but if you're running a lightweight Linux desktop 4GB is okay for casual browsing, and 8GB lets you do a lot of things wrt. useful work. These would've been considered very respectable specs a decade ago. Make sure to avoid Electron apps and you're good.

geraldhh 3y ago
i share your optimism towards older hardware, but > Make sure to avoid Electron apps and you're good. not practical in a lot of office/productivity scenarios
- worksonmine 3y ago
  > not practical in a lot of office/productivity scenarios Most of them come with a web version, use that, it's what I do and never have any problems. And if a company only provides an Electron app with no web version the choice of Electron makes no sense and their product should be considered a toy, not a tool.
arp242 3y ago
I ran on a 4G machine until very recently, and from experience I know you're right. You can still run "Electron apps" by the way, just not 6 of them, and not in combination with 28 Firefox tabs and full HD movie in the background. I did have some problems at times, but my dev usage isn't typical. I currently have 8G and I never have any problems. But also: these machines don't ship with a Linux desktop, lightweight or otherwise. You need to judge these machines as-sold, and almost all are sold with Windows as the only option, and 4G really does seem so low I would argue it's just not fit for purpose as a general purpose device, and really shouldn't be sold as such. It's like a car that's advertised as a general-purpose car that can only drive 80km/h. Is it a perfectly functional car? Sure! But also: not really what people expect, and not really fit for purpose. It's fine to sell this if people know what they're buying, but most people don't really know what they're buying with "4G RAM". Whether that is a sorry state of affairs or not doesn't matter, it's the reality of it.
- cassepipe 3y ago
  Running linux mint on 4th generation i5 with 4GB RAM worked ok but 8GB was really more comfortable (as in never worry about RAM no more) and you can easily get some for cheap so it's definitely a quick easy win. But the dramatic speed difference ? HDD to SSD. That one upgrade allowed to be a dev on that old machine for three more years, until the motherboard died last year, RIP. I got almost 10 years out of that hardware with two cheap and easy upgrades. Nice. On the other hand I don't recommend hardware older that 2013 as you get in performances that are really not comfortable or capped upgrade : That one Late 2007 Intel Core 2 Duo MacBook was usable but Linux was a pain to install on, RAM was capped at 4GB and it was not comfortable performance wise. Cheaper hardware for the same era is barely usable for casual tasks. Another thing I didn't mention with the 4th generation i5 laptop is that the plastics are always the first thing that break and it's a bit of a pain to have to replace it although it's cheap. Went with Framework 12th generation now and I am definitely intending to keep 10 years too. It feels much more sturdy, it's very nice. You just need a nice physical shell with upgradeable parts imho.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  >It's like a car that's advertised as a general-purpose car that can only drive 80km/h. Trying to get the analogy: it can 'only' do 80, or there are lower speeds possible and 80 is the max? I wouldn't mind a car like that...to and from work at the moment the most i need is about 45 tops.
d3w4s9 3y ago
"casual browsing" A random person on the street probably has a dozen tabs on their home laptop with two Youtube videos open.
pjmlp 3y ago
XUbuntu as well.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

stainablesteel 3y ago

sorry to hear about that, i've been using an acer aspire v nitro as a workhorse for the last ~8 years and this thing is unstoppable

cassepipe 3y ago

I feel you. On all my older laptops, the physical shell (around hinges specifically) is always what has died first. Decided I would only go with a metal case after my old laptop's mobo died. Hesitated between a M1 and Framework but went with the Framework. It's sturdy and contrary to the M1, I'll be able to upgrade it (I could already if I wanted to actually). Maybe not the best performance per buck on the market but hey it's plenty enough, even for a dev, even for some gaming.

jjice 3y ago
I love my Framework 13. I've never had a non-work laptop with a metal chasis but I'm in heaven. 2.8 lbs too. Feels like those high quality machines I always envied in college when I was too cheap to buy a decent machine (which would have absolutely been worth it, looking back). Apple does have great build quality though. Having your machine _feel_ well built and sturdy really does feel good.