4 ms·

> Its whole premise is alleviating racism in the workplace No, as a non american living in the US i find american obsession with race fascinating. DEI is abou

> Its whole premise is alleviating racism in the workplace No, as a non american living in the US i find american obsession with race fascinating. DEI is about every characteristic on which human can differ and how those difference play a role in the work place. Race is of course a factor , but so are neuro divergence, language, culture, gender and sexuality. Hell even things like "Don't schedule a meeting before 9 AM" is a form of inclusion for the non morning people. > yet its practical effect is giving certain races a favorable edge in the hiring process, independent of merit. Then that's a badly designed program. However the other side of the equation, if there some aspect of the workplace ( such as say every important meeting are at 8 AM) are needlessly preventing certain people of expressing their talent... we should also look into it. > Most recently when he hired an engineer from one of these "favorable races" even when half of the interview panel recommended a no-hire. Yeah sounds like a problem. Maybe look into the statistics to see if usually those type of candidate would have been rejected.

justinclift 3y ago
> No, as a non american living in the US i find american obsession with race fascinating. Especially super weird is the hiring practises of (non-US) businesses OUTSIDE the US who've blindly copied this US DEI stuff without thinking if it even applies. Several major Australian universities (and some gov departments) practically don't hire white males any more. As several friends already working at these places have complained about in private. Sometimes forwarding the "new and updated policy" mass emails from HR about it, just to show how insane things have become.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Specially at the same time when we are seeing gender-ratios going the other way. For some reason we are not working hard to aim it squarely to match general population...
lopkeny12ko 3y ago
> However the other side of the equation, if there some aspect of the workplace ( such as say every important meeting are at 8 AM) are needlessly preventing certain people of expressing their talent... we should also look into it. This is a disingeuous point of comparison, because this is a behavior that can easily be corrected. Just set an alarm clock like everyone else. On the other hand, I cannot correct the fact that I am from a non-minority background. How is it in any way fair for me to be disadvantaged in the hiring process for something I cannot control? > Maybe look into the statistics to see if usually those type of candidate would have been rejected. This sounds like a question asked in bad faith. Rather than analyzing hiring outcomes by background, does it not make a lot more sense to analyze hiring decisions based on interview performance, totally independent of race/language/gender/etc. If this data is then correlated against race, and hiring decisions are provably equitable across races, then great! But anecdotal evidence suggests this is not the case.
- growse 3y ago
  > Just set an alarm clock like everyone else This person does not have, or does not know anybody with a sleep disorder.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > How is it in any way fair for me to be disadvantaged in the hiring process for something I cannot control? I don't think that you are.
- xracy 3y ago
  > anecdotal evidence suggests this is not the case. Ah, and we all know the plural of anecdote is "data". /s Oh wait... The fact that you said this, suggests to me that you were the odd-person out on a hiring committee, and because the person got hired anyways, you feel like that means all hiring decisions are made on the basis of race. When in reality, you just didn't like the one candidate, and everyone else was fine. I don't know for sure that this happened, but I've met people who made these cases, and they pretty consistently overvalue their own opinions.
  - abduhl 3y ago
    The plural of anecdote is data though
    - xracy 3y ago
      It really isn't...
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  to strengthen your argument, you can acknowledge that no system we had was doing what you wish there are magical criteria like culture fit which is inherently discretionary and biased which should be penalized too DEI as you have experienced isnt a solution for that either one reality is that companies dont always need most the cognitively/physically qualified person. they need to tap into markets and revenue, companies that have already reached the peak of their primary market gain perspective by having people of backgrounds more in align with markets they aspire to be in. Many large companies are in that position and should be ignoring employee reindeer games about pedigree and performance. although one most complaint alteration of DEI is just recruiting from different sources that might have more minorities, like different schools, or even creating the pipeline in those schools, where the goal is more talent that happens to perform as well as existing talent, there is a parallel effort where none of that matters if the organization’s expansion into markets simply relies more on familiarity with that market. Do both, I say but other organizations that are just metoo-ing DEI should absolutely be called out all organizations that implemented it for arbitrary reasons should be called out

justinclift 3y ago

> No, as a non american living in the US i find american obsession with race fascinating. Especially super weird is the hiring practises of (non-US) businesses OUTSIDE the US who've blindly copied this US DEI stuff without thinking if it even applies. Several major Australian universities (and some gov departments) practically don't hire white males any more. As several friends already working at these places have complained about in private. Sometimes forwarding the "new and updated policy" mass emails from HR about it, just to show how insane things have become.

Ekaros 3y ago
Specially at the same time when we are seeing gender-ratios going the other way. For some reason we are not working hard to aim it squarely to match general population...

lopkeny12ko 3y ago

> However the other side of the equation, if there some aspect of the workplace ( such as say every important meeting are at 8 AM) are needlessly preventing certain people of expressing their talent... we should also look into it. This is a disingeuous point of comparison, because this is a behavior that can easily be corrected. Just set an alarm clock like everyone else. On the other hand, I cannot correct the fact that I am from a non-minority background. How is it in any way fair for me to be disadvantaged in the hiring process for something I cannot control? > Maybe look into the statistics to see if usually those type of candidate would have been rejected. This sounds like a question asked in bad faith. Rather than analyzing hiring outcomes by background, does it not make a lot more sense to analyze hiring decisions based on interview performance, totally independent of race/language/gender/etc. If this data is then correlated against race, and hiring decisions are provably equitable across races, then great! But anecdotal evidence suggests this is not the case.

growse 3y ago
> Just set an alarm clock like everyone else This person does not have, or does not know anybody with a sleep disorder.
JohnFen 3y ago
> How is it in any way fair for me to be disadvantaged in the hiring process for something I cannot control? I don't think that you are.
xracy 3y ago
> anecdotal evidence suggests this is not the case. Ah, and we all know the plural of anecdote is "data". /s Oh wait... The fact that you said this, suggests to me that you were the odd-person out on a hiring committee, and because the person got hired anyways, you feel like that means all hiring decisions are made on the basis of race. When in reality, you just didn't like the one candidate, and everyone else was fine. I don't know for sure that this happened, but I've met people who made these cases, and they pretty consistently overvalue their own opinions.
- abduhl 3y ago
  The plural of anecdote is data though
  - xracy 3y ago
    It really isn't...
yieldcrv 3y ago
to strengthen your argument, you can acknowledge that no system we had was doing what you wish there are magical criteria like culture fit which is inherently discretionary and biased which should be penalized too DEI as you have experienced isnt a solution for that either one reality is that companies dont always need most the cognitively/physically qualified person. they need to tap into markets and revenue, companies that have already reached the peak of their primary market gain perspective by having people of backgrounds more in align with markets they aspire to be in. Many large companies are in that position and should be ignoring employee reindeer games about pedigree and performance. although one most complaint alteration of DEI is just recruiting from different sources that might have more minorities, like different schools, or even creating the pipeline in those schools, where the goal is more talent that happens to perform as well as existing talent, there is a parallel effort where none of that matters if the organization’s expansion into markets simply relies more on familiarity with that market. Do both, I say but other organizations that are just metoo-ing DEI should absolutely be called out all organizations that implemented it for arbitrary reasons should be called out